I NEED TO ANSWER A COURT SUMMONS!!! Can Someone Help Me?

Have an attorney draw up a letter to the court dismissing the complaint due to improper venue.According to all the rules I have read,they would have to sue you in your home state.

Thank you Cajun. The problem I'm running into is that I cannot find an attorney to even write a letter. It seems that all the PA attorney's are not licensed in NJ. I cringe to think that I would have to pick an attorney off the internet in NJ.

Can I write the letter and use Improper Venue as a defense?

I don't have an answer but I am bumping this for you so it will be seen........

New Jersey has one of the most expansive long-arm statutes in the country when it comes to people in New Jersey being able to sue people in other states in the NJ courts. If someone told you they can't sue you JUST because you live in PA, they should have their law license revoked. There are circumstances where that might be true, i.e., if the only contact with NJ was that the plaintiff happened to live there . . . but if any part of the transaction took place in New Jersey, or if the contract said the New Jersey courts had venue, you can bet a New Jersey judge will hear the case.

Freaky everyone is entitled to their own opinion on venue. My state requires me to be served in my home parish.That is written in our rules of civil procedure.If a creditor did not follow these rules,he would be looking at obtaining a worthless judgement since our state code would invalidate it.

Thank you Cajun. This is just what I was told. If they obtained a judgement in NJ since I'm in PA it would be invalid.

I also know that the SOL would be expired in PA as well. I just don't want the judgement and then have more problems.

I have no access to any PA law and I'm here only 2-1/2 years so I'm a bit disadvantaged. Hopefully, someone from PA will see this and be able to fill in the blanks for me.

What does where you get served have to do with which court you can be sued in, cajun? That's what longarm statutes are all about. And as for whether an NJ judgment would be invalid in PA, you need to talk to another lawyer Guest. PA has very detailed rules on how to domesticate a foreign (or out-of-state) judgment. Even if PA (or in cajun's case LA) didn't want to enforce the judgment, they are required to do so under the Full Faith and Credit clause of the US constitution. (Just ask the Colorado AG how well they did in front of the U.S. Supreme Court when the legislature passed a law barring enforcement of foreign judgments in Colorado back in the early 1990's.)

I am being sued by a company from colorado, however they hired a lawfirm from my state and I was summons in my local court. I do believe they have to come to you. Just my guess, in fact I have two cases right now. One is at the local magistrate level and the other is the local courthouse, both cases come from out of state and use pa lawfirms. hope this helps.

Freaky this discussion is moot as I am not a lawyer like some here.I am a consumer who knows his own state code.I wish a collector would sue out of state so they could take $1000 off the amount due.The fdcpa states that collections are litigated in debtor's jurisdiction.Sure I have seen lawyers pull fast ones,but that is why the laws are there in black & white for anyone to read.My state follows the french Napoleonic code so we are very different from most.

Here is a link to Pa. rules of civil procedure.

http://members.aol.com/RulesPA/Civil.html

It would not matter if a judge did place a judgment in NJ,because PA being a NON-garnishment state they want get nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is true bud,
Cajun, should she answer the summons though? I have my first one at the local magistrate tommorro. Yippee skippee, I don't think they will show, I made payment arrangements and have been keeping up with it. Should be good, but wanted to show up to protect myself.

I'm just so aggrevated that they are using my mother-in-law's address for this stuff! I mean the lady is 85 and she has the mailman knocking the door down. We never lived at that address! How did they get that address and why are they using it to serve me there? Sounds so fishy to me.

This is why I want to answer that summons! I can't let this go because if they served this at an address where no one knew me it would have been an automatic default on my part and they would have won by default.

I think I'm going to file a complaint with with anyone I can think of. This is so absurd! The more I think about it the more angry I get.

Any thoughts from anyone is greatly appreciated.

Well i know when i got my case file it was specified in it that the summons be served to me and ONLY me! U may see if u can get a copy of the case file from the courthouse and see if that stipulation is there for u also!
Good Luck,
Ang

I answered the summons to the court, simply by admiting or denying each statement. You can do this, then either send it or go in person and file your answer with the court. I took mine because I wanted a stamped copy, and then you have to send them a copy also.
I answered mine like this, only an example.
1. Defendant is an adult who resides at 123 mockingbird lane,XXXXXXx

My response:
Admit, defendant is an adult who resides at 123 mockingbird lane, XXXXXX

don't admit to anything that is not totally 100 percent true. such as balance, payment, etc.

these are just a few of the things I ran into with this, I am still dealing with it all, got to go to court on one of them tommorro.

Good Luck in court Fed!! Please let us know how it turns out!
Will be sending positive vibes ur way tomorrow!
Ang

In my personal opinion op should not answer this complaint.There is a little feature in most courts that state if you do not object you become subject to their jurisdiction. Personally I would get an attorney to file a motion to dismiss before the time runs out on answer period.The dismissal would be based on improper venue.

Well since this is a bit more complexed case than me or Fed's i agree Cajun....
Good Luck,
Ang

I feel like I'm stuck in a bubble. When I speak to someone in PA they say it's a Jersey matter. I speak to someone in Jersey and they say it's not legal, they can't do that, blah, blah blah.

I'm so confused right now. The clock is ticking and I'm just ready to go down to the courthouse in NJ and show them my license and ask how do you sue me when I'm in PA?????

I can't get an attorney they're all saying different things and won't touch it. What is a girl to do?

Can I answer the court myself and state improper venue? I called the courthouse today and this is just in the complaint stage. I know if I don't answer them, they win by default. There are too many issues here not to answer them. Can I still send them a validation letter even though the gal at the law firm stated that it's too late?

It's NOT to late, it's NEVER too late to validate a debt! Only thing about answering it urself is, since this is a complicated case if one thing is not right, it will be thrown out!!
Can u try to call another atty in NJ?!?!
Hell i'm confused for ya!
Good Luck,
Ang

Well ang, you won't believe this, The capital one is the one that I was supposed to go to court for tommorro, a payment arrangement has been reach a while ago, well I called the magistrate today and their lawyers called and requested another continuance, This is the 2nd time I have scheduled off work, why the heck don't they just cancel it, the next date is aug 10th, it will be paid off on 7/27, I should call and delay the payment, change the date on them, this about sickning, and I am about broke here, missing days of work isn't helping any.

OMG Fed!! WTH?!?! Is there any way u can find a naca lawyer near u and call them with all this info?!?! This makes NO sense!! Most consumer atty's give a "free" first time consultation! Maybe try this! I am able to communicate with my atty via email since he's 4 hours away!
Wow, i'm sorry Fed!
Ang

And anyway, what's the point of taking u to court if it's already been paid by then?!?!
SIGHS,
Ang

hi poconomoki, welcome to the forums!

Ok, the very first question I have is this--what state were you living in when this debt was originated? Federal law allows the following(fdcpa)--



So, you can only be sued in the jurisdiction where the account was originally opened, or where you currently reside. If you were not residing in NJ when this account was opened, then they simply cannot sue you there.

Definitely answer the summons, but when you do, request dismissal on the grounds of improper venue. In that, be sure to cite the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, section 811....15 USC 1692i.

Now, I am not certain if this was a credit card, a loan, etc etc....can I ask what kind of debt it is? If this is a credit card, then the SOL in NJ is only four years. In PA it is also 4 years. On the paperwork you got, you mentioned "date of debt". Is that the date that it originated, or the date it went past due? You need to determine exactly when this date went past due, because that is what the SOL is based on. It is SOL in either place if that date represents the start of delinquency. So, if that is the case, you also need to bring up the SOL in your answer.

So, since I tend to write a book in here when I post, here is a short recap...Do the research I mentioned about SOL....if the debt is past SOL, then you need to request dismissal due to the SOL having expired. Here's the thing--you need to declare this, it is not an automatic defense unless you use it. If this debt was not originated in NJ, regardless of where you lived--if you were physically in NJ at the moment you signed the credit agreement or contract, then they can sue you there. If you were not, then they cannot sue you there, so if that is the case, you also need to cite improper venue and use the law I posted to support your claim.

Freaky--this is not as confusing an issue as you may think. Regardless of what NJ's long arm law provides, the FDCPA is federal law. And, in the FDCPA, there is a provision that states the following in section 816:



In other words, a state cannot legally override the FDCPA with a law that provides less protection for the consumer than the FDCPA does. And in this case, the FDCPA offers more protection. So, it doesnt matter what NJ law says--the FDCPA trumps it.

Skydiver,

It is a credit card from Providian. I was living in NJ at the time it was opened in 1998. I moved to PA in 2004.

The Account Summary has the date of debt 2001.

The summons address is my mother in law's home.

I do not reside there, I'm in PA for the last 2-1/2 years.

Is this still improper service. I have a legal address in PA where all my mail goes to. How the hell did they get my mother in law's address and serve a summons to someone who doesn't reside there.

I'm sending out letters on Saturday any input is so greatly appreciated.

I am confused about the summons. I thought you had to be served papers in person. How can they serve the papers to your mother-in-law and it hold in water? For example, what if I rented an apartment and that was my last known address for them and they went and served papers to the knew residence there? I thought when you got served they had to have some kind of proof that you were served.

If you try to pull ur case file from the courthouse it will show on there who must be served! When i recieved my case file it was stated that the summons MUST be served to me and NO one else!
Also, I'm thinking if u lived in NJ at the time of recieving the cc that's why they're suing u there. They may not be aware of ur move since then. I'd think also the laws of NJ would hold true to this case of course I'm NO lawyer!
Again, good luck,
Ang
P.S. And dont' forget to answer the summons!! If u ignore it, they will get a default.

Dollars and Sense I couldn't agree with you more. I didn't hide a thing when I moved! I changed everything through the Post Office! I'm sure that the new address pops up everywhere.

I'm so very confused right now I could cry. I can't function anymore. I called a local lawyer that does consumer debt and he said he can't do anything because it's in NJ. We have to wait until they sue in PA.

I call a guy in NJ highly recommended by a friend and he says Oh they can sue you in PA just take your name off of the bank account and the house and you'll be ok.

I mean what the hey! So I decided to just answer this summons myself BUT I don't know what to write except to tell the judge the story. Should I go to FTC too?

I have to get all this in the mail by Saturday to keep within the time frame. Any suggestions?

Did u try searching naca.org for a consumer atty in NJ??
I'm as confused here as u are!!
I'm so sorry wish i could be of more help to ya!
Ang

I think you need to find a N.J. lawyer to mess with this if you do not want to take a stab at it on your own. It sounds like it is going to require someone to show up in court on your behalf eventually unless you want to go to N.J. to represent yourself. I am by no means a lawyer but if this happend to me I would try to get a N.J. lawyer and in the mean time I would answer the summons via mail. I would include the fact that its outside the SOL, that you were not served properly describing how they served you mother-in-law instead, that you permanent address is not in N.J. with a DL photocopy included and that they did not validate the debt so you do not even know if it is yours. I would deny all of their line items.

The problem is this might be terrible advice. I am not sure what would happen if you acted like you never were served and never received the letter to respond too. It could result in a default judgment though which they could then apply to PA to collect maybe. I would think it would be difficult to take a N.J. judgement and garnish pay or file leins in PA but I do not know. I would think that if you could show up in court when they did this you could get the judge to invalidate the judgment but if they are sneaky you may never know when they show up to court and where in PA.

ok, pocono....this is my best advice

file the answer, but request dismissal, based on two things. First, while you cannot claim improper venue(you lived in NJ when the account was opened, so they can legally sue you there), they did not serve you properly. To verify this, follow Ang's suggestion about checking with the courthouse. It should be easy to prove this one. Second reason for motion to dismiss will be expiration of statute of limitations. In either state, SOL on a credit card debt is four years. According to what you have told us so far, this debt went past due in 2001, so it is definitely past the SOL unless you made any agreement to pay, or any payment, since then. If you did not, then SOL is expired. As such, it doesnt matter what state they file in--SOL expiration automatically shuts down their suit against you if you use it as your defense.

Answer with Motion to Dismiss on the following grounds:
1--expiration of statute of limitations
2--improper procedure, as the summons was served to another person in a state you dont even live in.

Me personally, I would go as far as to file a countersuit, but when it comes to these people I smell blood in the water lol....because the lawsuit was filed after SOL has expired, that may make this a frivolous suit, and you may be able to collect damages from the CA that is suing you because of it. Any lawyer should have known better before filing this suit on his client's behalf because of the SOL. In a countersuit, you also can possibly include the fact that they provided confidential information about a debt to a third party unlawfully when they served your mother in law with something that is only supposed to be served directly to you. If you need help putting any of this together, I will be happy to help you research and put together all the statutory evidence you need to prove your case. I am not an attorney, but I know this law and how to apply it. Let me know if there is anything else I can do. Dont panic, you are holding all the aces, believe it or not!

Dollarsandsince brings up some good points, but I personally do not see how answering as he has said could result in a default judgment. The fact is that this debt was never validated for you. No court can simply default against you if you answer by saying that. Thats what an answer is for--it allows you to have your say so they cannot default. If you say nothing, they will default, but anything you say in response must be considered by the court. As far as the summons goes, I would emphasize two things--

First, that you were not served properly, as they served your mother in law in a state you havent even lived in for years.

Second, that they unlawfully provided information about a debt matter to a third party by serving her with your summons. The fdcpa clearly limits the amount and type of information that a CA is allowed to provide to any third party, and believe me, your mother is a third party.

Anyways, like I said, I would be more than happy to offer any advice or help I can. Feel free to ask me anything or even messgae me if you have signed up on the forum.

Thank you all so much!

I have to say I did review the paperwork and found that the summons was delivered via USPS Mail not a sheriff or anyone like that. THE MAILMAN! It's too early to call the courthouse and I'm suspecting right now as we speak that this didn't have any delivery stipulation because if it did they would have asked for identification. It was simply a ring the doorbell, mother in law signed and away he went.

I'm livid!

I will be writing this letter tonight and it will be in tomorrow's mail certified to them too!

Make sure u file it with the courthouse also! So you had a previous summons served through the mail?? Am i understanding this properly?
Did u try looking up an atty on naca.org ?
Very good luck to ya,
Ang

Ang,

I looked at the envelope and it's usps certified mail. I know it's mail since I went to the USPS website to verify the number and it came up. It was mailed but there's no notation as to it being received back.

I'm calling the courthouse in a few hours when they open to verify WHO was to sign. I suspect knock on door mailman shoves in front of mil and she signs. Now to see what name she signed, she's 85 years old and I wonder. There are days and then there are days.

Will keep you posted.

I have NEVER heard of a 'real' summons being mailed!! You may have to get your whole case file to find this info poco. Mine was $1 per page and a total of 30 pages, now this was "after" default so urs shouldn't be as many pages! Also, doesn't matter what named she signed, even if she did sign ur name she's NOT u!
Good luck and plz keep us posted!
Ang

Ang,

I'm desperately searching for an attorney now. I just read the fdcpa guidelines and I honestly feel that this is was not handled properly. I'm getting NO help from my husband who keeps telling me just get that off my mother's address! I didn't put it on your mother's address. She's 85 and I don't know the mental capability there if you know what I mean.

I'm so upset but I know I have to keep going.

Will keep you posted. Thanks

CACH never handles things properly poco! They are definately exactly what bub hibbs has said "bottom feeders". Seems they are suing a LOT of people lately and i think they just hope for defaults!!
JERKS!
lol
Good Luck and don't be upset, it'll work out. When they first contacted me, it was through my brother! I asked them how in the world they got his name and number since we have diff last names. The woman told me they have some kind of program that shows ALL places u've lived in teh past! I lived there over 25 years ago! YIKES!
Good Luck and keep up ur fight!
Ang - on ur side poco

Ang,

I swear it was MAILED!!!! I see the green return receipt. Can't talk right now. Husband is ticked at me for sending it to his MOTHER! I didn't send it. She's 85 I just hope she didn't sign MY name.

For the record for the world I DO NOT LIVE IN NJ FOR 2-1/2 YEARS.

This is enough to give you a nervous breakdown. Off to call the courthouse.

hi again pocono....

a question for you--did you ever, at any time, live at the address they sent the summons to? This is important....While checking on civil process law for the state of New Jersey, I found this:

serve-now.com/resources/process-serving-laws/New-Jersey/

[quote]Summonses shall be served together with a copy of the complaint, by the sheriff, or by a person specially appointed by the court for that purpose, or by plaintiff's attorney or the attorney's agent, or by any other competent adult not having a direct interest in the litigation. If personal service cannot be effected after a reasonable and good faith attempt, which shall be described with specificity in the proof of service required by R. 4:4-7, service may be made by registered or certified mail, return receipt requested, to the usual place of abode of the defendant or a person authorized by rule of law to accept service for the defendant or, with postal instructions to deliver to addressee only, to defendant's place of business or employment. If the addressee refuses to claim or accept delivery of registered or certified mail, service may be made by ordinary mail addresed to the defendant's usual place of abode. The party making service may, at the party's option, make service simultaneously by registered or certified mail and ordinary mail, and if the addressee refuses to claim or accept delivery of registered mail and if the ordinary mailing is not returned, the simultaneous mailing shall constitute effective service. Mail may be addressed to a post office box in lieu of a street address only as provided by R. 1:5-2. Return of service shall be made as provided by R. 4:4-7.[/quote]

AS far as I am aware, a mother in law is not a person who is authorized by law to receive the summons for you. At least, not in your case, since she is not your guardian or anything like that. This is proof that they did not follow this law.

Also, what is the date that the summons was actually issued by the court? I ask because I also came across this:

[quote]The plaintiff, the plaintiff's attorney or the clerk of the court may issue the summons. If a summons is not issued within 10 days after the filing of the complaint the action may be dismissed in accordance with R. 4:37-2(a). Separate or additional summonses may issue against any defendants.
[/quote]
These are NJ's laws, as they will apply to this case. If the complaint wqas originally filed more than 10 days before the summons was issued, you have gounds right there to make a motion for dismissal.

As it stands, even without that, you already have two solid reasons for motion to dismiss, the SOL and the improper service procedure. These people have attorneys working for them, and unless you are hiding out somewhere, a simple records check on your information(name and SSN) would have easily told them where you reside. They apparently didnt even bother doing so, and that negligence is probably enough to get this whole thing dropped.

When you file an answer, simply deny each line of their complaint, and then include the motion to dismiss, based on expiration of statute of limitations, and based on improper service. Briefly explain both of those situations so that the judge has reason to look into the matter further--that way, they wont be able to say that you are just firing back with excuses.

Skydiver,

No I'm not hiding out somewhere. I'm a legal resident of PA. I have moving permits, a legal PA driver's license and to prove where I've been for the last three years. We have head tax here and I have to pay it every year. Do you think that would be good enough? I can send the judge copies of the head tax receipt and my driver's license.

I never spent a night in that house! My mother in law can stand me! All my husband is concerned with is that I get my name off HIS mother's address.

Oh I can dispute this in total. I have enough paperwork to choke a horse that I live here.

What happened was when we moved from NJ to PA we were in a rental house in a private community with a gate. They did not issue a mailbox. To make life easier, my husband used his mother's address to send the electric bill and things like that. This was the only time we used the address and it was for mailing purposes only.

From the looks of that statue for NJ I don't think I live in NJ and like you said my mother in law is not my guardian.

I definitely will have this in the mail by Monday! Now that I know the direction I'm going. You are a treasure.

Sorry but I've been here in PA since 2004.

Any idea how they could have picked that address up? It's insanity. I can prove the entire move if I have to. Again, my husband took care of all the post office stuff and God knows what he did. I really don't know what happened. All I know is he goes to see his mother and comes back with that. They didn't even call me to tell me. If he didn't go down I would have never know and then it surely would have gone to a default judgement. They are very strange people. Let's just say they don't like me and I don't like them. I know if I got a certified letter for someone I would have been on that phone in a heartbeat.

Ok off to battle. Oh should I send a copy to anyone else beside the court and their attorney?

Skydiver you are a treasure. THANK YOU SO VERY, VERY MUCH.

SKYDIVER,

Can I put a validation letter in that package too? This has not been validated.

Off to answer. Wish me luck.

Moki

Good Luck Moki!!
Sounds like maybe they got this address from when u used to get ur mail there! (just a guess) Hell, how did they get my brother's phone number?? I lived with him when i was 18 years old, i'm now 45! And they called him to have me call them. Why not just call me? ANd my phone number is listed under my name!!
Weird!
Kick some CA butt Moki!!
Ang

Ang,

My in laws are blaming me in capital letters and neon lights. You should hear them!

The only reason I got this letter is because my husband went down there. If he didn't go I would have never known and would have ended up with a default judgement!

I can't for the life of me explain how they got that address. I mean we moved in Nov. 04 and settled in the new home in 4-05. We're in 7/07 right now.

My only fear now is that they will turn around and try to sue in PA. If they do try to sue in PA, I have plenty of attorneys here that will more than gladly hop on this. The problem I'm encountering now is find an attorney that will handle this. The ones on naca aren't too eager.

Well back to the drawing board.

Thanks for all the support. You don't know how much it's appreciated.

MOKI

I'm sorry to hear this Moki!! :( Sometimes in laws can be a pain! Kinda sad that had ur hubby not gone over there ud more than likely have had a default placed against ya! Also, sorry to hear even the naca atty's dont' seem interested!
Go over to bud hibbs site and e-mail him personally! He's great help!!! He'll have someone answer u immediately or he'll email u himself. (I got an email from him personally)
He's great help! Try that next!
Good Luck and don't let the in laws beat u up too much. We ALL make mistakes!
Ang

Ang,

I can't thank this forum enough. My mom passed away in November 05 and I have no one I can turn to. My husband is taking the stance that I'm a liar, I gave them the address and basically he's taking they're part.

Quite frankly, I'm just worried that they won't make me sell the house or something like that. Then I won't have anywhere to go! I will be out on the street.

Thank you so much for thinking of me and and supporting me. Oh there's more to this story.

Moki

I am from Pa and am dealing with Cach too. They filed suit on me back in December 2006,But they filed at our local courthouse, it is now July and we are still going through the motions. I just sent them a discovery motion, they have not proven to me that they own this debt. To me it still belongs to Providian. they sent me an affadavit with someones name stamped on it and a copy of a bill, to me this does not show ownership. I want to see something more legal than that. They are a pain in the butt. Defineatly make them prove they own it. They probably don't have the proof.

As far as your husband honey, I know what you mean, men can be just as big a pain as the collector, I have one here that isn't real supportive of this either, he says just pay them. Well, I don't owe them, I owe providian and if it is theirs they are gonna prove it.

Send them a validation, certified mail, return reciept requested, then you have proof.

as far as the husband, hang in there, I don't discuss it with mine anymore. goodluck.

Thanks Fed! You hit the nail on the head!

Now where do I get a validation letter. I'm ready to fight these creeps. The statement of account states ORIGINAL CREDIT PROVIDIAN AND then there's the CREDITOR AGD Financial Trust 2002-A does that mean they don't own it?

Where's that validation letter???????

I only have 17 days to mail this and I'm going for the throat at this point.

As the saying goes enough is enough! I mean serve me at my home in my state and be the correct person to get the money!

Now I've heard it all. I sent an email to an attorney in NJ to see if he could help me. He answered me and told me that he can BUT he wants a retainer fee of $2500! Good God the amount I owe is only 4500!

I guess I'll just have to take this on myself. Oh God I hope I make it.

HOLY COW! What happened to the "free" evaluation?? Sheeesshhhhhhh!
And on the hubby part, i just told my hubby this past weekend and he wanted to call CACH first thing Monday morning and just pay them the amount they "claim" I owe!! I had to talk him out of that!! He was gonna just pay them $12,500 on a 4,000 credit card bill! WTH?!?!
Did u go over bud hibbs site and email him Moki??
Try that next....
And if that fails, then u can try this on ur own and we'll all be crossing our fingers for ya!
Stay Strong,
Ang

Ang,

What is it with hubby's. Mine told me the minute he got home to call the law firm, "set up a payment plan". Get that off my mother's address!

I did email bud hibs a few minutes ago and also a few other attorneys on the naca list in NJ.

I really wish they would send this to PA since the SOL is expired and there are plenty of attorneys here who are waiting. The attorney in town was remorseful and stated he wished it was here since he could do something.

Is there a place to report this to fair credit? I'm ready for bear.

Will keep you posted.