Adult Kids, Debt & Credit...

I think sometimes, you've gotta let kids learn the hard way. I don't have any kids, and I'm young ( 26 ) and I already have more than $60,000 in debt.

I have never asked my parents for help because I am terrified of what they will have to say about my situation and I am already ashamed. Sadly, my parents never educated me on credit and personal finance. My mother cut up every credit card offer I received in the mail until I moved out at 22. So to me, credit was this big, mysterious thing. I thought that as long as you paid your creditors on time, you would have outstanding credit and never run into trouble- I thought that was all you needed to know about credit. WRONG. I had no idea that debt to income ratios, high balances, and inquiries can knock down your score just as much as late payments and accounts in collections.

When my car's engine had to be replaced 4 years ago, I was too afraid to ask my parents once again for help ( even though I know they would have helped ) because I knew my mom would be angry that I hadn't budgeted ahead of time for emergencies. So that's how I got involved with Cashcall. Only I couldn't keep up with Cashcall's payments, so that's how I got involved in PDLs. And then, I couldn't keep up with the PDLs, and I started taking on more high interest loans just to keep the bills paid. I was borrowing from Paul to pay Peter, and I just dug myself deeper.

And now, 4 years later, I am in more trouble than when I first signed my soul over to Cashcall. Part of me is upset with my parents for never educating me on credit and etc. Part of me is upset that they have themselves so unapproachable to the point that I am terrified to tell them my troubles. Part of me still wants to go to them and cry and say I'm sorry and beg for help. But I don't. I can't.

In the end, I continued my cycle of debt through foolishness. When I got bonus checks at work, I bought nice things for myself instead of applying them towards the debts. I just figured I would be in debt for the rest of my life, anyways. So a lot of where I am now is still my fault, and my fault alone.

Your kids are very, very lucky that they have had TWO moms who have been bailing them out of trouble again and again. I think that is the problem- they are not becoming financially responsible because they have learned that if there is a problem, Mommy will take care of it.

I feel at this point, you will have to let them go and grow up on their own. Maybe going through the stress of no money and no credit will make them wisen up. If they are starving, by all means, deliver groceries to them- food. But don't put cash into their hands even more, because it may or may not be used for the right things. But personally, I am so tired of living in fear of payday and crying when I see my account go negative, that I've decided to change my ways. I am starting a second job next week, and am thinking of taking on a 3rd to pay off my debts.

It's a tough lesson to learn, but it has to be learned some time. I think you have already done more than enough for your children. It may be difficult to watch them stress and hurt, but otherwise, they may never learn.

Mine and my husbands mom I think has helped us pay for a few bills when we first started to live on our own but we were always obligated to pay that money back when we could, which we did, or there wouldn't be anymore help when we needed it.

I truely didn't understand the importance of credit until I was 27. My husband and I had literally trashed our credit pretty badly, mostly unpaid bills and only 2 credit cards, fortunately. It's been a hard lesson on us both to learn to live with a lifestyle that is affordable. We aren't that great at saving money sometimes but all of our bills are paid on time.

My daughters are 18 and 22--and I think the biggest debt for young adults in their age group is college. My kid graduated from a great school--and is $60,000 in debt from student loans. This is something that our generation never had to deal with.
My 22 year old has a great job making almost $20,000 more than me--but she's already in debt up to her earlobes. And what's going to happen when she wants to buy a home? I just shudder at the thought...

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That last post was me. Forgot to log in XD

I appreciate the support and stories, everyone. I'm just so frustrated with them right now. My daughter saw me make financial mistakes myself and have to deal with them, and she's seen me pull myself up by my bootstraps to get back on my feet, only to have the rug pulled out from under me once again by things beyond my control...so I'd get back up and start over again. But I have tried so hard to teach her the RIGHT way to do things, and after my own experience with payday loans, which was small compared to some we've seen here, but no less dangerous, I thought she'd never take one out, much less get herself in over her head the way she has. I thought I had made everything very clear to her, and to her fiancee when they lived with me. I guess I failed at that.

At this point, his mom is asking me for advice on how to get them to understand, and I've told her all I know to do is to let them fall once or twice, and stop saving them every time they stumble financially, which they're doing big time right now.

My mother and I had a discussion about this the other week, actually ( not about my financial situation. I'm still too scared to divulge that info ). And I told her that sometimes, kids are too afraid to come to their parents for help, because they are already in a terrible position and they are afraid their parents will get mad and make them feel even worse about themselves and how they got into this mess than they already do. So instead, we try to keep everything hush and try to fix things ourselves without the wise knowledge of our elders, and end up in even deeper trouble because we are too afraid to ask for help.

And my mother said that from the parent's point of view, they get extremely mad and upset often with the child, but deep down inside, they feel upset because they believe that THEY failed to protect their child and to raise and educate them properly enough to keep them out of such messes.

So I understand where you are coming from, Suebee. But it sounds like you have picked up the tab more than enough times and your kids have to learn some responsibility. It's better that they learn it now when they are younger and have the ability to pick up and work second jobs and cut back on things when they don't need to clothe and feed children of their own. Better they learn now than further down the road when their debt is completely out of control and they have a mortgage and kids to raise of their own.

Suebeehoney-I also have a son who is 20 and I am going through with trying to help him understand about finances as I have been paying his credit card bills and cellphone bill. He came to me one day stating that he wasn't making as much as he usually does and needed my help. Well when he came to see me one day and showed me his new tattoo, I got upset. I told him pay your cellphone, its not a neccessity to me or you. Then it was one thing after another that I noticed he would buy Xbox, games, etc. and then the following week he would say he didn't know what he was going to do about gas money for his car. I told him that is it, we are going to sit down and he is going to pay all of his bills. I said if he has to the cellphone will get shut off and he will sale items that he has bought that he really didn't need. I don't know how to get across to him that if it is not a neccessity its not needed. Therefore, if you don't have the money you don't buy it. I am part to blame as I raised him by myself and have always kind of coddled him. Well now I am trying to do the tough love thing and he is getting upset, and I always say to him oh well, you will understand one day. I do agree things were a lot different when I was younger, my parents never bought us things, if we wanted something we had to work and buy it ourselves even school clothes at times. My son never had to worry about that as everything was provided to him. That was one of my biggest mistakes as I feel I have enabled him and he feels that I am being mean. I said no its time to grow up and I try to explain to him how does he think I did it by myself, I worked and if I needed to I would get a second job. How do you correct this? I want to send him to a course for all basic finance-(which I still think they should have more of this in high school as a mandatory course.). Then he can come on this site and give other young adults some advise since they will probably listen to each other and this is also a thought-young adults today have Myspace and you name it, maybe this site would get even more exposure.

THANK YOU Kolodin & Amaranth for your points of view. Kolodin, you hit the nail on the head. His mom works for a major big-box retailer, so they come and do their grocery shopping there every week - and she's a cashier, so she sees everything they buy. Movies, video games, shoes (daughter is a clothes horse!), junk food (frozen pizzas, tv dinners, chips, pop) and CIGARETTES. The smoking thing ticks me off - if they can afford the price of cigarettes, they can afford to pay their bills - and could afford even more if they gave them up. Not trying to offend any smokers here - but these are KIDS who only started smoking in the past few years, can't afford to, and could give it up.

Again, I really appreciate your points of view...I've sent them a couple of care packages containing things they could use for their new home, but I won't send any more right now, because I'm afraid they're going to lose that new home very soon if they don't shape up - and my sending a few household gadgets and pots and pans is NOT going to help that.

I refuse to send them money (can't afford to anyway) because they simply won't spend it wisely.

SueBee, I know too well what you are going through. As you know, I have a 34 year old son, who is responsible with money, and a 27 year old son who isn't.

When he got overdrafts at the bank at age 20, I paid them because my name was on his account (learned from that)! Well, after a lecture and some budget help he eventually did it again. I marched his behind up to the bank to talk with a bank officer and explain how and when HE was going to pay it off.

Fast forward--he met a girl with 2 kids, and then you have 2 people who aren't responsible. I learned there is a difference between "helping someone through a tough time, and enabling them. I am embarrassed to say, as a counselor, that I did the latter, but didn't take long to figure that one out.

Just as I had to figure I was throwing good money after bad, and had to learn that, they will have to learn to stand on their own two feet. My son and girlfriend got a large tax return,and I talked with them about paying off their bills to give them extra money each month. They bought a trampoline :lol:

The only way I learn lessons is to get sick of paying the consequences of my actions.

It isn't easy to watch yur children do this and go through this, but my hope is that they learn their lesson alot sooner than I did mine.

All I can do is tell them I love them, but I can't support 2 households anymore. Me and my husband worked two jobs to get out of debt, but we were willing to take that action.

Hang in there, PM me if you want..KAren

Thanks Karen! It's rough seeing them struggle, but infuriating to know that they struggle because of their own actions, even when advised how to do something to improve it.

Well, a little update to this thread...my daughter's fiancee's mom paid her own rent AND theirs last month, by cashing the stock that she and her other son had in the store they work for. It totalled just enough to pay my daughter & her fiancee's rent for April.

I asked her what she was going to do next time they came to her for help - she's cashed in her stock and emptied her savings account to help them over the past couple of months. She said she can't help them anymore, and that she told them that. I told her she needs to simply STOP helping them - period. Neither of us can afford it. I did talk to my daughter the other day, and she assures me that things are going ok, that they're keeping their bills paid - but I'm not sure I believe it, since I've been lied to for so long regarding that issue.

I guess all I can do at this point is hope and pray that it all works out, and they don't end up getting evicted.

I am sorry to say this but IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM!!! I could see if they where suddenly disabled and had nowhere to turn but they can work, it is their problem to deal with, not yours and not his mothers. Too many times I see parents who bail their adult children out because they are not responsible. Don't do it anymore.

The other problem was also mentioned. The reason why these young people are losing their houses and stuff is because they want to live high and mighty. They buy or rent a house too big for them. They buy a Plasma TV they don't need, video game systems, cars too expensive. They need to learn on their own, If they get bailed out, they figure they are all set for the month and will go out and spend the money they have, when it comes time to pay their bills, they have nothing.

Let them fall down, let them get thrown out of the apartment. I know it's mean to do but it has to stop, they will keep using you and his mother for the rest of your lives.

Another thing is that what happens when you or his mother becomes sick? You spent all that money helping them out so who's going to help you? Not them, thats for sure.

I am really trying to help you see the light on this and hope it helps. I know it's your daughter but you need to cut the cord.

Thanks, Guest - your points are all ones that I totally agree with. I stopped helping them a long time ago - but now HIS mom has stepped up to start helping them, and has exhausted her own resources doing so. I've advised her to just let them fall on their butts a few times, and they will learn - quickly - that they can't keep coming to her for help. She's done far too much for them already - stuff I wouldn't have done - like paying to have their cat fixed and declawed! :evil:

Being an animal lover, I hope someone is watching out for the cat's welfare too? At least they did have the good sense to get it fixed; they sure didn't need any unexpected kittens to complicate things. They're having trouble taking of themselves, so I worry how they would take care of a cat by herself, much less a cat and some kittens.

I think everyone seems to feel the same, it might be time for the "mother in law?" (not sure what else to call her) to cut off support. Speaking from personal experience, when someone is engaged in behavior that isn't very responsible it sometimes takes a major fall to wake them up. Hopefully an eviction would be the wake up call they need, but probably not. I hate to say it, but that's hardly a major event these days. Especially after watching the news and seeing stories on this mortgage debacle.

I just hope it happens sooner rather than later! Then they can get on with cleaning up the mess and moving on with their lives.

I think they need to MADE EVERYONE in high school take a "credit" class.I think this class is needed in ever class room and make it to where the student can learn about credit.BUT the key word is they have to take the class no "IFS" or "BUTS".

I agree completely, Bud.

Our high school here has every damn sport that's ever been invented. But it offers precious little that would help kids get by in a small, Northeast, ex-mill town with a faltering economy.

I have a 16 year old and I'm already talking to her about credit and such. I don't want her to make hte mistakes I have. I don't know if she listens or not but I really hope she does. I fully agree with everyone that has said they need to have finance education in high school. It's just not good for these kids to get out on their own at 18 and all these credit card offers start rolling in for them and they don't think and just accept. It's so easy for kids to get themselves in debt and very hard for them to get out of it. I'm trying to convince my daughter to get a job this summer but she wants no part of it. I figure if she wants a car or she wants other expensive items the best way to make her see she needs to get a job is not buy her all the big ticket items she's used to having. I think it's good for kids to learn the value of a dollar and not have everything handed to them.


Johnita

You're all SO right - and you're echoing my own feelings here. I really appreciate the input! I lay awake at night worrying about my daughter's future, because she and her fiancee are in this "me me me!" phase of their lives - where everything is about them, what they want, what they can get from everyone else, and damn the consequences! They've already screwed up their credit enough that they couldn't get a credit card when they applied for one (thank God they couldn't!). They're like two kids playing house.

As much as it hurts me to see them struggle, it is a result of their own actions, and I refuse to give them any more handouts or help until they start showing responsibility for their situation and shaping up. I just hope that the fiancee's mom will follow suit and not help them any more, as she has said she won't - I just hope she doesn't go back on that.

I have a 15 year old boy. He's 'just learning' ( lack of a better word) the Credit/Debt thing. If he says he wants something ( computer game, etc) I give him some chores to do and he can save up for the game. I'll put it on Law-A-Way until he earns the money himself. Or..recently, at the beginning of the school year, he had some low grades on his report card. He's a smart boy....he just wasn't doing homework. I was trying to tell him that homework is a good portion of his grade. Well.....we discussed it and told him if his grades came up ( doing homework would do it) and he paid HALF of the game ( the game was $20.00) then we could get it. Well.......he brought ALL of those low grades up!! he really worked hard to do this. At times, it's VERY difficult to 'teach' him financial responsibility. If I'm going to be late on a payment, I call who I need to call and let them know, etc. My bills come before 'toys'. However...with my ex,it's completely the opposite!! My ex would buy games,DVD's, etc. even if he had Shut-Off notices for things!! Everytime he gets a Shut-Off notice, he calls 'Mommy and Daddy' ( my ex is 39 years old) and Mom and Dad' help' him with his bill. His parents actually bought him a used vehicle and paid in cash!! Their 'baby' needs a car..OMG!! They've paid his bills for them as long as I can remember. They won't let my ex 'grow up'....it's really sad to see! My ex actually got angry at his parents because they would NOT Co-Sign on a $10,000.00 personal loan for him....my ex called his parents 'every name in the book'. SOOOO.........of couse, with all of THIS going on, my son 'sees' what's happening.

See, that's the thing I worry about, sdchargers - that they will "grow up" - at least chronologically - and still be thinking they can run to his mom for everything they need. I think they've gotten the message that they can't come to me, because they haven't even bothered to ask - but they've gone to her several times to get her to pay their rent, get their cat fixed/declawed, for groceries, for stuff for their apartment, to pay their car loan, etc.

My daughter's dad co-signed that car loan, by the way - I told him not to - and twice now, it's come to the point where the company has tried to take both the fiancee and my daughter's dad to court over it, because they keep defaulting on it, then managing to get it paid somehow until the next time. :evil:

[quote=sdchargers_63]I have a 15 year old boy. He's 'just learning' ( lack of a better word) the Credit/Debt thing. If he says he wants something ( computer game, etc) I give him some chores to do and he can save up for the game. I'll put it on Law-A-Way until he earns the money himself[/quote]

FWIW, I think you're on the right track. I'm doing the same thing with our older two, and I'll do it with Bubba when the time comes [he's almost 4 :lol: ]. The older two are 6 and 7. If they want a 'luxury' [new bike, special toys, etc., they get to earn it. Chores, grades for the older one... There's always something they can do. They thought I was an ogre at first, making them work for stuff. Then it dawned on them that under this arrangement, they can have pretty much anything they want, assuming they're willing to work for it. It's working out to be a great intro to budgeting and credit for them. And it's something my first-grader can relate to, because he lives it and sees how it works.

[quote=SUEBEEHONEY70]My daughter's dad co-signed that car loan[/quote]

None for me, thanks.

When the Demon Children reach driving age [gonna be at least 9 more years], I'll stake each of them to a beater car in need of repair, six months insurance, and a tank of gas. After that, they're strictly on their own for transport.

And before that beater car hits the road for the first time, they, their uncles, and I will have it running like new. They'll know how much upkeep costs, and how to do the simpler things [at least] themselves. That's the very least I can do for them.

I have to say that my kids did learn from my mistakes (and I have made many) with money. My husband had to quit work suddenly and we were down to one income--so there wasn't much there when my oldest was finishing high school.
Like I said earlier in this thread, the thing that has done my oldest in is her extensive student loans. We had no choice--as there was no way I could pay a $43,000 per year tuition. (Kinda hard when that's what you make a year, lol)
But my oldest is doing OK. She's even started an IRA and will turn 23 this year. And that's alot more than I could've thought of at that age.

that's fantastic, KS...sounds like your oldest is on the right track! :D

I actually saw on the news recently that one of the schools here in Jacksonville actually has a bank branch from a local credit union set up in the school. The kids actually work in it themselves. I don't think they do loans or anything like that, or at least I hope not, but it seems like a good way to introduce the kids to managing their money.

BTW, it's the bank I use and they also have special accounts that can be set up for kids too. So if the kid doesn't attend that particular school, they can still go into the bank and open up a kid account.

I remember, when I was in college, I actually taught a Junior Achievement class for credit in a personal finance course I was taking, to a bunch of 4th graders. It was the most fun! The kids were so smart and I was just amazed at how much they already knew at that age.

It also make me think seriously about going into teaching.

Very briefly.

I have a great respect for teachers, but very little patience so I didn't think it was a good move for me.

UncleWulf, what the heck is a "Beater Car?" Anything like a "Wife Beater" shirt?

I'm presuming it just means the car isn't in that great of shape.

Hang in ther Suebee!! I know I had the learn the hard way more than once on my mistakes, and I know my son will too, I just hope he isn't as old as I was when I learned!!

Unc-you are really on the right track with your kids. I did a similiar lesson with mine when they were younger, you have to work for it and save. The oldest got it, youngest -well hopeflly some day!..karen

[quote=UnemployedRon]UncleWulf, what the heck is a "Beater Car?" Anything like a "Wife Beater" shirt?

I'm presuming it just means the car isn't in that great of shape[/quote]

Y'all don't use that term in Florida? How'd you live there all these years, and sidestep the Southern upbringing?...



Anyway, Ron... Yeah. A beater is an older knockabout car/truck/bike/whatever. They've usually been neglected to some extent, and often abused, hence the term 'beater.'

LOL!

Actually, I think I had one when I was a senior in high school. This was in 1982 and it was a 1972 Datsun (remember that name?) with part of the floorboard rusted out. Had no AC, and very little heat to speak of. And I had the most fun in that car!

Ah, memories.

BTW, UncleWulf, I could have taken a pot-shot at your comment about your kids thinking you were an ogre, but I figured it was too obvious.

I figured I'd give the old man a break and just let it slide.

[quote=Bossy4455]Unc-you are really on the right track with your kids. I did a similiar lesson with mine when they were younger, you have to work for it and save. The oldest got it, youngest -well hopeflly some day!..[/quote]

I'm not so much trying to teach the kids a lesson, Karen, as a lifestyle. This isn't something we're doing 'this week', it's simply the way things are. Hopefully, over time, it will become automatic for them.

I wrote some more about it in this week's contest question. Too much to re-type here...

[quote=UnemployedRon]LOL!

Actually, I think I had one when I was a senior in high school. This was in 1982 and it was a 1972 Datsun (remember that name?) with part of the floorboard rusted out. Had no AC, and very little heat to speak of. And I had the most fun in that car!

Ah, memories.[/quote]

Heck, yeah! I remember Datsuns well, and fondly. My first ex had a B-210 when we first met, back in the 70's. And a buddy of mine just hit a deer in his '91 Z the other day. He's all right, but he's some pissed. He's got 4 cracked ribs, and the car needs about $6-7K in repairs. I had a Datsun pickup myself as recently as 1997. Ugly as home-made sin, but reliable. Used to have to start it with a paperclip, as the key switch was shot.

[quote=UnemployedRon]BTW, UncleWulf, I could have taken a pot-shot at your comment about your kids thinking you were an ogre, but I figured it was too obvious.

I figured I'd give the old man a break and just let it slide[/quote]

Fire at will! Don't let the gray hair scare ya off.....

know what you mean- the lessons I have learned over the years, whether good or bad has shaped what type of lifestyle I have had. In learning this, my sons learned that for every thing you do, there is a price to pay,whether good or bad, and you choose what road you want to travel. When the boys were young, my oldest decided he didn't want to do his chores for a week, or anything extra for extra money. I explained that the price he would pay would be no movies, no going to the water park,etc. I guess he thought I would fold at the end of the week and he would still get those things--wrong--but he learned he didn't want to pay that price again!!

Enlightened self-interest is a powerful motivator!

After ALL of the crap that my son is seeing ( the ex....wants things to 'fall in his lap', and me...earning what I have..) I REALLY think my son is leaning toward the 'earning' thing. My son was talking to me about feeling good about himself EARNING what he wanted, etc. My son figues out alot of things for himself..that's for sure!!

I think my older son (next in line after the daughter I've spoken about in this thread), who is 16-1/2, will be in good shape. He is getting a job this summer, then wants to get a car, etc. The difference between them is like night and day.

Sounds like your son 'has a plan'..SUEBEE. Good for him. Hope things go well for him.