Kramer & Frank - Are they for real ?

Here is some info from the Better Business Bureau about Kramer and Frank"

Quote:

Thanks for the info. Hopefully there isnt a problem. Do you think since they are attorneys they are more interested in suing me than collecting the debt? I just thought maybe thats why they arent talking to me, so that they can say I made no attempt to make arrangements.
Is that something thats even possible?

I have not seen or read any bac information regarding Kramer & Frank atty's, maybe they are some issues in their office and had to cut back their hours or maybe they take extended time off during the holiday's. Good luck and keep us posted

They just sued me for a 5 year old Emerge account that I have been trying to get corrected. Their main purpose is to take these accounts to court, sue you, get the debt officially on record by a court of law, receive a judgement in their favor, then garnish your wages until debt is clear. They will also charge you interest on that debt with the courts blessings. Their whole objective is to get a court judgement on unsecured debt so it can be collected. Don't bother trying to contact them that is not their objective. Forget about going to court when you receive your summons, the judges tend not to listen unless your in the "club". I've tried everything you are trying and even went to court to plead my case with no success. This is the trend of the legal profession due to the money these legal professional are making from collecting debt.

I cannot condone Al63139's advice as it will lead to a default judgment. If the debt is not yours then you can easily win a court battle. First thing you do is get a attorney well versed in fdcpa law. You should suggest that your attorney motion to show cause in the discovery process by requesting validation. The important things the judge wants to know in these suits are:
1. Does the debt belongs to you?
2. Does this entity have the legal right to collect on the debt?
That is what validation shows (in part) so the judge is going to grant said motion. If the CA can't produce said documents then the case gets dismissed (usually with prejudice, meaning that nobody can sue for it again) You can also challenge the chain of custody by having them produce assignment contracts and/or receipt of sales from that CA going back to the last CA that had it and the one before it, all the way back to the original creditor, you may even request they present witnesses that have first hand knowledge of the debt in question from each of the CA's for them to testify to their knowledge. It will break down their case faster than a house of cards in a hurricane.

I have dealt with them and every time I call in to ask a question or follow-up, they are terribly rude and heartless. I am referring especially to one person in particular named Edie Weber. She is a horrible excuse for a human being. I wish I had thought to record our conversation...
Good luck with getting anything worked out with that company. I have never had a good experience with them and have been forced to hire an attorney to combat them.

They are too busy trying to get people like me to pay money that I never owed anyone. Maby this is what spread the wealth means

Al63139, thanks for taking the time to tell it like it is! I had the same experience with this company. In fact, my experience was worse -- Kramer & Frank's SPECIAL PROCESS SERVER NEVER SERVED ME A SUMMONS!!! I even tried to file a complaint with the Missouri Bar Association, as the Kramer & Frank attorney who sued me proceeded with the lawsuit despite the defective -- OR MORE ACCURATELY, NON-EXISTENT - SERVICE. Once a creditor has turned a delinquent account over to them, all you can do is try to settle the debt. I thought I survived their unethical dealings once, only to land in their hands, again. Now, since I live outside Missouri, they won't even send me statements. It's like I send my monthly payments into a black hole. At some point, I will address this with them -- via an attorney of my own.

Both Letty and al63139 are dead wrong. I can't decide if they simply didn't know any better, or are purposely posting this useless information in an effort to dissuade others who may not know much into allowing default judgements to happen.

In any case:

al63139: There is no "club". You simply have to either have a lawyer, or know your rules of civil procedure. 'pleading your case' will do you no good if you do not follow rules of civil procedure like motioning for discovery of the documents pertaining to the debt in question and everything else JCMT said in his above post. Just not going to court is about the worst thing to do because even if they were able to properly validate the account, the judge would set up a payment arrangement you can afford where if you didn't care enough to show up then why should the judge care and just award a default judgement allowing the CA to then go after you aggressively...so that was not brilliant advice on your part.

Letty:
while it was a good idea to report them, it would not stop the court action. What you should have done was go to the courthouse and get the judgement overturned due to improper service, there is law in place just for this.

all in all that was not 'telling it like it is' because it isn't like that and doesn't ever have to be like that. There are rights and laws made to protect consumers from just such practices but you have to take the initiative and protect yourself.

I have had the same problem. I have been leaving messages for Diane Lawson, whom I was directed to when I started inquiry at a satisfaction of judgment on an account that I had paid to another outside source. They will not return phone calls or answer when you call, you always get the voice mail. This has become quite frustrating.

Never, Never!, Never!!! Call a collection agency. You are wasting your time and may do more harm than good. Send them a debt validation letter CMRRR. If they can't validate, they lose. If they do, follow up with a Pay For Deletion letter or a Pay In Full letter. Don't let them drag you into court. If they do, you'll have plenty of ammunition to back you up. Keep copies of EVERYTHING you send them and everything they send you. Many CA's pretend to be law firms. Kramer and Frank is simply a CA who has a lawyer on staff. Don't be intimidated.

I was sued by K&F in Missouri was paying them a monthly payment. I then moved to a different state sent the payment they returned it and closed the account. Four months later they are trying for wage garnishment. Debt lawyers suck!! My rule for everyone, pay off your credit cards and never use them again. The lob market sucks and these low life scum suckers get off sueing people who have no money.

How can I get them 2 lower my interest rate . I would like 2 pay them off. what can I do. Who should i call . sick of them

i was never served,and a judgement was filed against me. i founf out when i requested an audit to be done on my credit report. this is a fraudulent bill, and want this resolved. i have sent emails, certified letter, and called more times than i can count. i dont have the money for a lawyer, and i dont know what to do. they will not return a phone call, in this economy i really cant afford a lawyer. hmm, pay my light bill or get someone who can make them return a simple phone call. decisions-decisions

Smoothhoney, check with the county clerk to see when and where you were served notice, if you were never served, you can have the judgement overturned for improper service.

Kramer and Frank did the same thing to me. I found out that I was being sued 2 days before the court date! I got a letter from another attorney and when I called the court house they told me about it. I went to court, plead my case, told them that I wasn't properly served and QUESS WHAT!!!! THEY WON!!!! I have been paying on this account and it goes up over $1000 per month!!!! So all of those that say that our postings about K&F are wrong probably work for them!

nope.we are saying YOU work for them.i find it hard to swallow your story.first fine you lost.the part i find hard to believe is the debt goes up 1,000.00 per month.riiiight.no judge would allow a CA to add to a judgement or allow interest on that judgement.sorry but i for one do not believe a word of your story guest/shill.

they are real and no they dont return phone calls so how are you able to make payment arrangements thats just it you cant so what do you do nothing they sent me a letter asking for a payment and to contact them so i tried no answer and no return phone call 3 days later both my bank accounts were garnsihed and they say i still owe them $300 they took $710 and the balance was only $600 so do what you can to protect your bank

They seem real to me. Very hard to deal with. Refuse payments if not a large amount

Had dealings with K&F, they sent a letter to my bank and had the bank garnish my account for the entire amount due. It's 4 months later and the bank is still holding the funds waiting for K&F to finish the court proceedings. I have yet to receive a summons. I agree voice mail is all that I ever got when I received the call from my bank regarding the garnishment of the account. So what happens when the bank returns my money to me? Do they get to try again?

If it is for credit card debt, they can't take money out of your checking account without first getting a judgment against you. If they try again, sue them.

They can't garnish you without a court order. Check and see if they got a default judgment against you. If they did, immediately contact the courthouse and see how you were served. If you were served improperly, then you can motion to have the judgment vacated due to improper service. If it gets vacated you can get that garnished money back.

If there is no judgment against you then contact your bank immediately and get those reversed, then close out your account and open a new one..then SUE that company (report them too) because they basically stole your money.


For the guest that has the bank garnish BEFORE a court date? WTH??? they can't do that...they can only honor a legal garnishment and a garnishment w/o a court order is not legal. Contact the courthouse and see what is going on with the case.....if there is no judgment then you had best start heavily complaining to the banking commission or whatever other authority there is because what the bank is doing is illegal.

Debt consolidation? Their dying as-. Try only Debt collection. I owed a few pennies on a Dr bill and they hounded me long after it was paid. But that's ok...

They have been garnishing my wages for six months now and as of the 1st of Feb. it was satisfied. They are still garnishing my wages after debt owed and these people are crooks. I now have to hire my own lawyer to get my money back that i desperately need and have been over garnished!!!!

They are very difficult to deal with. I'm on my way back to court for the 3rd time with them. I sent a validation lettter(certified) to them they sent inaccurate balance. I request verification of balance. They sent 2 letters after that. And I had no further contact from them. I emailed and I called ) all documented) but no response. 2months later I served a summons. I explained to the judge, and K&F keep saying we can work it out. I don't want that judgement entered on my credit report. Tried to enter an agreement they sent me a Consent Judgement. I agreed to a total of $1556 + 60.00 in interest. The Consent Judgement that has to be notorized has the total as $1863+ court cost. I called them and she tried her best to convince me that I was only liable for the $1556.00 not the total amount. I'm currently looking for an attorney, I will not go back to court and deal with them without an attorney. They will say and do anything. I'm not sure if the are more CA or attorneys.

DO NOT SIGN A CONSENT JUDGMENT. They are offering that because they know that they have NO case!

Was that garnishment a voluntary event by your employer, or was it court ordered by a judgment?

There is no judgment in place. There isn't a garnishment. I have not been found in default. The judge has told them they need to work me. I was never notified 30 days prior that they were seeking a judgement. I was never told the actual true balance until I received the summons. They would never consult with me. This is just my impression but I believe that they purchased this from FMCC, as they say they are acting on their behalf. There was a $1100.00 difference in what I owe. They never expected me to show up in court and dispute there collection tactics. I've had to prepare notorized discovery papers . On the consent judgment they have added 9% annul interest on remaining balance. I can't stress enough I DON'T want a judgement on my credit report.

Hi,

Sorry for not being clear, I was also responding the post before yours.

Of course you don't want a judgment on your credit report. But a consent judgment is still a judgment.

If you do a Google search with "kramer & frank complaint" you will see that these people are deceptive, crooked, and bold. Put quotes around the k&f so that you won't get results about a bunch of Kramers and a lot of frank conversation....

Has anyone ever tried to suggest a proposed settlement with this company after they have gone to court? Example, you owe them $5,000 and can pay $3,000 to complete the debt and call it good. I have had no contact with them for 3 years, but know I still owe them and have not had a bank account since then for fear they will freeze my account. I have come into a little bit of money and would like to just settle for a lump sum. I have not tried to contact them yet and it sounds like it would be difficult from these previous posts. Can anyone help me in this matter? Thank you.

After they have gone to court? Does this mean you already have a judgment against you?

Yes, I have gone to court and they have garnished about $850 so far. I think I originaly owed $3500. I have paid nothing since Dec or 2007 and am afraid to open a bank account becasue of them.

Yes, I have gone to court and they have garnished about $850 so far. I think I originaly owed $3500. I have paid nothing since Dec or 2007 and am afraid to open a bank account becasue of them.

They will not likely settle, they have no reason to. But it's always worth a shot.

So you haven't paid on the judgment in a year and a half? Be careful, the county court where the the judgment was issued may decide to charge you with Contempt of Court for trying to avoid the judgment (which is a court order).

The county court is not going to issue a contempt citation for not paying on a judgment. A judgment is just a formal order that says the court finds that, in this case, a debt is valid. The judge can't set up a payment arrangement and cannot make you pay it off or send you to court. Your best bet is to try and contact the firm and work out a payment arrangement. Be patient - you are not the only person in this boat and they are so busy they may not get back to you right away. Give them a dose of their own medicine - call in all day at every opportunity until you get through. Remember that from their perspective, you are the one who owes and you are the one who is the problem, not them. If the bills had been paid on time, they wouldn't even be involved.

It's not likely but it is possible, and it does happen. First though, they may see if there are any assets that they can put a lien on or file a Writ of Attachment.

Although,on the other hand, there has been no payment in a year and a half, so who knows?

It is certainly worth attempting a settlement, if you are able to take care of it then it's best to finish it so you can move on.

Fortunately, you didn't get an aggressive Law Firm against you - such as this one: "http://www.texascollections.com/the_list.htm"

Wow. That law firm is Texas seems to be incredibly intense. Looks like they do a lot of posturing to gain clients. I guess they use the theory that they will make you and everyone around you as miserable as they can and "embarrass" you into paying a judgement.

Knowing that there are collectors out there that sue at the drop of a hat and aggressively pursue their payment immediately, it is always best to keep that danger in mind.

You will note on that law firm page I cited above that they sometimes sue 10 DAYS after they get the account, but no longer than 30. And there is even one example where they got the judge to issue a bench warrant for a debtor that moved to Florida! (Of course Florida is not going to extradite them on a bench warrant from a civil court.)

It's good to keep this in mind, though. If you get a judgment, you need to pay it. Which is why these junk debt buyers sue so readily - most people either won't defend themselves, or appear pro se without proper preparation and end up stumbling on their own feet and bungling the case - even when they could easily prevail.

Concerning Kramer & Frank. I too had some dealings with them. Be careful. They tried to garnish my bank account (without success) because they kept saying they called me and left messages and I would never return them. I had actually called them and left messages but got no response. They are sneaky!!! Keep track of everything!!! I had to go to a supervisor to get any response. Do NOT let the receptionist transfer you to one of their collectors.

I was paying them every month and on time. They proceeded to put a hold on my bank account. I got that removed by going to the Sheriff's office and filing an Exception. They refused to work out payment arrangements while still accepting my payments and demanded payment in full. They are now garnishing my may wages taking 25% of my income monthly. I'm in the process of filing bankruptsy just to stop this unjust garnishment!

I filed a complaint against them with the better business bureau. This can be done easily online. I suggest that everyone who has had problems with them do the same!

my husband is 2 months behind on a personal debt to an individual who is going through kramer and frank to collect. They have written him a nasty letter gave him 6 days to pay or they will contact and send the sheriff. Can they do this? Also isn't a refusal on any amount sent to them a good thing for you and a bad thing for them as it is showing intent to pay on your behalf but refusal of payment on theirs?

Thanks

Yes indeed. You are trying to be responsible and taking care of this debt as best you can and if that's all you can do, then it's all you can do. If they take you to court you can show the judge that you were paying as you could and request the case be dismissed accordingly.

Your case will not be dismissed because you tried to pay something and they would not accept. They are not obligated to take any amount other than the full balance owed. While the Court will encourage the parties to work something out amicably, the Court cannot order them to take less than the full balance on the debt.

As far as sending the sheriff, all that means is that unless he can pay or set up mutually agreeable payments, they will file a lawsuit and the sheriff will likely be the one serving it. Nothing illegal about that, especially since everything that I have read about them says that they will. Best to call and try to work something out with them if you believe that it is a valid debt.

Make payment arrangements people to avoid court as I have.

Um, did you miss the part where they said they already tried that?

The court is not going to enforce a payment plan that you cannot afford. They are not going to throw you out on the street or take food from your table. Simple as that.

It is easier to make a payment arrangement in the court and then you will get a suspended judgment (which means it will not go on your record as a judgment) which will be dismissed after it is paid off.

This is not automatic, you have to request it, defend it - fight for it.

See: Negotiating A Settlement Agreement in Court. "A settlement agreement is an agreement between you and the plaintiff that resolves the court case without a trial or a judgment. In most cases, the settlement agreement will include a payment plan."
"http://www.nedap.org/hotline/settle.html"

You guys are scaring me. We were making payments faithfully....for years....and my husband had a massive seizure in January while working in NY, with no health insurance. He was in ICU for 8 days and not expected to live. He's home now but has no short-term memory and can never drive nor work again. I'm disabled and retired and all we have is our social security payments which are darn near not enough to live on. Hopefully, in our small rural Missouri town, which isn't thrilled with big town lawyers, we'll survive, if it comes to that. I was going to write them and explain our situation but it sounds, from your posts, that that would be a total waste of time. If they want our run-down mobile home or our 10-year-old car, I guess they will have to come take them. That's all we own.

Kramer & Frank is indeed a law firm that business purpose is debt collection. Try 800-288-5437 or 816-778-0631. This firm uses very strong arm tactics and are very rude to deal with. Sorry you have dealings with them!

Anyone can write the Federal Trade Commission and report unfair credit reporting. The District Court for the Western District of Missouri Western Division won a law suit for Danny Murphy filed on 1/12/07 against Kramer and Frank for violations of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. You can pull a copy of the court document from the internet by googling this. Also notify your state's Attorney General's office and the media. I heard that Dateline NBC or one of the other news magazines shows did a story on this subject recently and I just sent an email to the investigations department at KCTV 5 for their violations regarding a negative mark they put on my credit report for a hospital bill sent to their firm for collection. The bill belongs to someone other than myself. I am fortunate enough to hire an attorney however, I am on a mission from God to expose them.

Kramer & Frank transferred my judgment from another state that doesn't allow additonal interest or fees to be added to the amt. I've been paying a wage garnishment. I filed to end the judgment when it reached the amt I owed(i.e. $2,100)since they never explained the excess amt they showed. Hearing date isn't for 2 months. They have already received the full amt they requested ($2,600)and I'm still being garnished. Are there any penalties for the continued collection? Do I have to wait till the hearing to get the overpayment back?

Chiming in late but lots of good info. To the folks who say do nothing, you are moronic and must work for K&F or some other bottom feeding CA and are just trying to poison the water. Kramer & Frank are totally able, and frequently violate the FDCPA, if you don't know your rights and ignore going to court they'll win automatically. Only you the consumer can hold them accountable, that's from the writers of the FDCPA and that's how they designed it.