Rannefeld & Associates - Formal Complaint

I can not understand why your payments aren't showing and yes you definately hjave a nightmare going on here. It almost sounds like you may need someone to help you settle this once and for all. Try and see if you can talk to someone about a legal case. I hope it all works out.

You can request validation at any time. Why else would they send you one of the items you requested? If they have legitimate claim to this debt or are managing it for the original creditor then they should have no problem producing those documents. However they are having a problem abiding by the fdcpa with the issue of ceasing collection activity until validation has been presented to the consumer.

also, for them to send an offer of settlement without validating first, isn't that a violation as well?

Yes Saxwoman2, it is as it is continued collection activity.

but is their sloppy envelope of *statements only* considered validation? that is the question...

i would venture to say they *think* they've validated. the settlement letter was attached with a paperclip on top of the statements.

but is their sloppy envelope of *statements only* considered validation? that is the question...

i would venture to say they *think* they've validated. the settlement letter was attached with a paperclip on top of the statements.

Sending only statements shows they have statements. But it does not show they own the debt. They would also have to produce at least a copy of the original contract with your signature as well as either an assignment contract or bill of sale. If they purchased it from another collection agency you could challenge the chain of custody by requesting a bill of sale from them as well going back to the original creditor.

you are wrong by sending the statements that is the validation of debt. You seem to have clamied not a valid debtor as it came out of thin air but seems they provided proof of the statements and probably the mailings. Rannefeld is not a debt buyer they are a law firm that debt buyers retain to sue for debts or collect and silly rabbit they dont have to send all 11 docs only statements sounds like to me your own your way headed to court soon especially since they reject your cccs offer which rannefeld would never accept anyways. Your payments probably arent showing up because there probably sending them to the wrong place or are giving you false statements which many cccs companies due they are the biggest one of the biggest rip off companies out there cccs can not do anything they dont own the debt and since rannefeld is involved they mean nothing dont even matter you might need to look info a debt settlement company because rannefeld doesnt participate in cccs programs. You dont have a case you seem to have failed to pay your debt and now are looking for a way to change the terms of the original contract which doesnt happen the balance always due plus interest attorney fees or court cost look at your contract

Ugh, Procollect, if you're going to try making a point on these forums could you please check your grammar? I got a migraine just reading the first few sentences of your post.

And guess what? You're wrong. I remember reading somewhere, I do believe it was in this forum, that providing copies of statements is not considered proper validation. In my opinion anyone can obtain copies of statements these days, or even doctor some up using a halfway decent word processing or publishing program. So I hardly think that is all that needs to be provided for proper validation!

You mentioned for us to look at our contract. Well, there should be two copies of said contract; I should have one and the Creditor/CA should have one. So why is it so hard for them to produce a copy of said contract when validation is requested? If all the terms and conditions are so conveniently located on the copy they are referencing when they collect/sue me for this alleged debt, then they should just be able to pop it through a copy machine and send me a copy when I request it.

Hopefully someone legitimate, and that can use the "Kings English" correctly, that can either back me up or correct me will be along to do so.

Unemployed Ron you are correct in what you have read that providing statements is not proper validation.

I wonder why procollect doesn't register as a real user..seems to have too much time on their hands and nothing better to do then pick apart people's posts.

I am sure that if someone called them or sent them a collection letter saying they owed all of this money they just wouldn't take their word for it. They would want some concrete evidence, especially with all of the scams going around.

LadyBug! Thanks for that, I wouldn't want to be accused of giving out inaccurate information.

You know, what you say makes absolute sense. If I were to receive a call from someone claiming to be a CA advising they were collecting X amount of dollars on a debt that may or may not be mine. I would definitely not just take the word of some stranger calling over the phone like that and just start handing over my money. I would need to see some sort of proof the debt is mine and how they arrived at the amount they claim I owe. I would also need to see some sort of backup that confirms I'm required to pay this person for the debt and not the original creditor, that is if the debt is even mine.

Why don't I just open my bank account up (all $6.00 of it) and just let you go in and take what you want Mr. Procollect? Would you do the same for me if I called you? I think not.

If you would, though, can I have your phone number? Being unemployed and broke really sucks and I could use some extra cash about now.

Is this company out of Texas? If so, procollector should know they ARE debt collectors. I found some info on budd hibbs site on him and also he is Blue Rannefeld dba Rannefeld & Associates. I think he is also bonded with Texas. This company looks like bad news, check into it.

I know they are also debt collectors as well. I pulled their business license before on PDF from the state dept. of commerce.

See Us Supreme court Heinz vs Jenkins.Any law firm that regularly collects debts is a debt collector by definition. Now I need to become very unpopular here and warn everybody. They can make very valid claims in court with just statements provided the statements are from the creditor,address & identifying info is correct,and balance matches what they are claiming. Most states have ruled in court that if you use a credit card,you are agreeing to the terms of the account providing that it was you who made charges and account was not compromised. If a collector responds with statements from creditor and correct balance info,I would call it validated under most circumstances.Without a written contract would just limit the lawyer from brimging suit under breech of contract.The statements would support a account stated claim.

OK, Cajun, thanks for that. It certainly puts things into perspective regarding debt validation.

I had heard there was some confusion on the part of courts as to what exactly constitutes proper debt validation. I thought it had been clarified, across the board, that statement copies alone were not sufficient. I guess I misunderstood.

Don't know why you would think that would make you unpopular? Clarifying something or correcting a misunderstanding? I, for one, appreciate it.

Now my question is, what exactly is the difference between a "breach of contract" and an "account stated" claim? Would they be handled in different court venues? I'm just curious. Can they get even more money from you, if they win, with one as opposed to the other? Or is it just a different way of accomplishing the same task: forcing someone to pay a debt?

Well I figured it would be very unpopular because of the board's letter addressing everything but the kitchen sink in our dv template. There is little law or case law reviewing exactly what constitutes validation. I prefer to look at it from the court's point of view.If they have enough that I think it would prove it in court,I consider that validation.

Regarding the two different civil claims I presented:
1.Breech of contract would require some proof of a contract defined by the court's rules of evidence.
2. Account Stated is a very popular way creditors sue directly.They send statements and receive payments on account.By showing court you received clear concise charges & payments received on a monthly statement,they have proven it is your account. Another popular claim in relation to this cause is Open account or Money owed.

Hey, I for one, don't mind contrasting points of view as long as they are presented accurately, professionally, and legitimately. As long as you don't post under the "No Nonsense Collector" or "ProCollect" guest name, I'm good.

Kidding.

I guess I'm more liberal minded as I don't feel statements alone don't prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the account does belong to the debtor. As already stated, statements can be doctored up. And just about anyone can call someone else claiming to be collecting on a past due account. It's just hard for me to believe anyone that just calls me out of the blue like that, especially (forgive me for saying this) if they have an accent from overseas as some CA has outsourced its collections to India.

In this day and age of rampant identity theft and personal information being just a few clicks away on the Internet, it's hard to tell who is legitimately collecting on debts and who isn't. Just another argument for the need to overhaul the fdcpa! It has not kept up with the times, economy, and progresses in technology at all!

When I say statements I am referring to paperwork from original creditor.In regards to fraud or id theft they would need a lot more than statements. I would not accept anything on a collection agencies letterhead as proof!

great post cajun finally someone who knows that in most cases statements are sent from the CA/Attorneys because yes generally that is what is used in court to prove the debt. Most cc companies don't do a written contract by using the card that creates the contract per the terms and conditions as in most states,So proof that you signed for cc is not required to validate debt

Um...no...the account I sued on, they gave me statements, but they settled out of court anyhow because they knew it was not enough. I know this for a fact. This CA would not have been so hot to settle if the statements they sent were enough. Statements simply are not enough...it especially if the amount they say you owe differs from the amount the statements show, plus the contract must be signed to be valid, a lawyer told me that.

Your right Goldenbast, to properly prove their claim (the same for any debt even if I were to sue someone for money they owe me through say a oral agreement) I would have to prove an agreement exists between myself and the defendant. Generally this would be done through a formal or informal contract as a oral contract is hard to prove unless recorded.

I am just saying with a proper assignment or bill of sale,statements can be enough especially if the original creditor is the plaintiff.Everyone here knows that 99% of credit cards do not have a written contract or application.All my cards came from a app online.

Cajun, I recognized that you did clarify what you said regarding the assignment or the bill of sale. Without it and with just statements, it may not be enough for a CA to sue you and prove the debt is actually yours in a court of law or that they are even legally entitled to do so.

Logically speaking if the CA/Attorny can prove, via a series of statements that have payments made and/or purchases made by you on them, that would seem to indicate the debt is yours. I would be leery, however, of them producing a string of statements that have zero activity on them other than the interest, fees, and penalties accruing. I would think they would need to show a little more on them, at least payments being made by you, in order to establish the debt was yours. Also, as Cajun advised, a bill of sale or assignment just makes sense to me too. I mean, come on now, without something like that documenting the CA/Attorney is even legally entitled to collect on this debt it would seem that just about anyone could start claiming they are collecting on any person's particular debt. To me, there would have to be some sore of proof to establish the CA/Attorney should be collecting this debt and the money they get (if any) would be turned over to the correct party and not just put in their pockets.

*backing out of this topic* Call lawyer if you need any more as I am not one. :lol:

Do you play one on TV?

Kidding.

On that note though, I do hope that no one that does come to this website would view the information, views, and opinions as a suitable alternative to consulting with an attorney. An attorney would aboslutely be the most qualified person to guide you through whatever legal difficulties you might be having.

Procollect Sucks!