Threatened by collector

well this bottomfeeder broke the law with their call.per the FDCPA they now have 5 days to send you a letter stating whi they are and who they are collecting for.first thing you do is file a police report as again he broke the law with that call.then when he calls again state you will not lower yourself to engage him until you receive something in writing.hang up.repeat only do not utter a word.just hang up.do not even think of paying the clown without at least a letter from them.

I'm not sure where the threat is in your story. And Paul, how did the collector break the law? I don't see that either.

Anyhow, you need to tell them that you expect a Dunning letter. Once you receive the letter of collection in the mail, then you can ask for validation. Arguing with collectors over the phone will generally not get you a thing, except pissed off and frustrated.

well basically telling them to sell everything to pay the debt is at least a violation of the FDCPA.so unless i'm mistaken that is not allowed.

I agree with OhioGal1, does not seem to be any violation at this point. Sounds like the collector may have been pushy and suggested a means to get funds to pay off debt, but no threat in the original post.

we established that their was no threat,but again telling someone to sell everything is the same telling them to borrow the money.it is pushy,and not allowed.it's the same thing as demanding payment,or an arrangement over the phone right there.sorry but that ain't right.

The difference between right and wrong is pretty clear. A collectors job is to collect money that a debtor does not/has not wanted to pay. They provide options that range from borrowing from a friend or family member, getting a second job, selling items and even changing one's livestyle/expenses. Many who owe money are in a position that they cannot see the forest thru the trees, just as there are many that just do not want or intend to pay. Based on the comments of the OP, it sounds as though the collector was providing options and they were not in agreement with the options. Right and wrong is a matter of perception.

okay let's play it this way.you are called by this place.(which after looking them up are a bottomfeeder)you never got the usual collection letter,and the person on the other end is stating you sell almost everything you own to pay it.again nothing in writing and from what i'm guessing this is their first contact.btw what you and ohiogal call suggestions i call bullying.again no letter and that was their initial contact.btw the OP said it was for a loan,and i'm guessing an illegal internet one at that so i wouldn't even entertain further calls as i personally don't engage bottomfeeding bullies.

Well that is not pushy, that is downright abusive and demeaning. It implies that the poster has not already looked for work, it implies that the poster has means and just doesn't want to pay. This caller doesn't know the poster, doesn't know his/her situation. They have no business making snide suggestions, and it was said in snide manner because no one would say that with an intent to help or be kind.

While it was not a threat, it very well could have been threatening. At one time I would have felt threatened, demeaned and harassed by that exact call and that is when I did not know the laws or my rights, now I know better.

? 806. Harassment or abuse
A debt collector may not engage in any conduct the natu-
ral consequence of which is to harass, oppress, or abuse any
person in connection with the collection of a debt.

That is pretty clear. Now that one phone call alone may not constitute harassment, the guy was just being an insufferable jerk. You can bet it has likely only just started. Find out if your state allows for recording calls without telling the other party. If you can, then start recording the calls.

If you are in a state that both parties must be made aware then start the call off with something like, "I am recording this call for my protection. If you do not wish to be recorded please hang up now." If they say no, or argue, just keep repeating "If you don't want to be recorded, please hang up now." :)

If they do keep calling, remind them that they need to send you a letter within 5 days of first contact. If they don't, send them a letter.

If you get enough of those calls recorded, you can show how the caller was being abusive.

You guys are making assumptions that have not been stated! The OP says that they "just received a call" and nothing has been received thru the mail. The problem is that the CA has 5 days to mail the Dunning letter which could take an additional 7 days to get thru the USPS. That is a "worst case" scenario of almost 2 weeks for the letter to arrive and that is IF the address is correct.

Abusive/harrassment is a matter of perception. I have made calls before and done nothing but ask for a deliquent customer and they have gone ballistic! Did I do anything wrong? No, but the problem with the section quoted is that there is no "barometer" for what determines abuse and/or harrassment except prior court rulings. I would be 99% positive that providing options, while not comfortable to hear, would not stand up in court as a violation. You can dig thru the records, but that is common sense.

Well if you don't think it is abusive there is no point arguing about it...just agree to disagree. :)

But the point is that the OP obviously felt threatened, else why even post? While it may not be enough to really do anything about, it is a good heads up that more might be on the way and if the OP should start recording calls and keeping logs, they might be able to show a pattern of abuse and that is a different story.

Quote:

well, the bottom line is that none of us were on the phone when this call took place, so we cannot speak as to the tone or exact words used. But I do know this--the FDCPA states that a debt collector is not allowed to use ANY conduct, "the natural consequence of which is to harass, oppress or abuse any person". If the CA actually said "sell everything you own", then that is harassing. Come on, can anyone REALLY say that this was just "offering options"? I mean, how big is the debt in question? Do any of you allegedly owe a debt that would require you to sell EVERYTHING you owned to pay it off? Sure, some of us might, but the average debt is nowhere near that large, folks.

Going strictly off of the OP's description, this was most definitely harassing behavior, and therefore a violation of section 806, FDCPA. You guys and gals need to remember that the FDCPA carries with it the "least sophisticated consumer" concept--that is, would the "least sophisiticated consumer" reasonably find that conversation to be harassing or abusive? You betcha.....I am not the least sophisticated consumer, and I MYSELF find that to be disgusting. Think about it--if you know someone who is out of work, and you are genuinely offering options, wouldnt you take a moment to find out what their field is if you were trying to help them with a job idea? Suppose this debt collector called a house and the person they were looking for was in a wheelchair? Fast food restaurants are not designed with kitchens that allow very good access for that. I could go on and on, but my point is that the debt collector clearly was not just genuinely offering suggestions.

I would find what the OP stated to be abusive and harassing.....you don't even have to have heard the tone of the call, what else could it have been? How can someone say, "sell everything you own and pay us" in a nice way? That statement is not meant to be nice!

Oh and giving numbers to fast food joints is grossly oppressive, makes one think they can't get a job but at Mickey Ds.......and I don't know about the average teenager or young adult, but a fast food job wouldn't even pay for daycare! You CAN'T live on fast food, so why even try???? That comment was meant to be demeaning...because it WAS demeaning.

Oh and it is not a debt collectors job to try and manage someone's finances....everyone here knows most of those abusive collectors likely don't even have a high school education. They should state their business, give the "pay me" speech, take the debtors responses and flag the account however they want....it is NOT their job to tell someone how to manage their money...MOST people are painfully aware of their financial status and it is demeaning to have someone offer 'suggestions' that aren't constructive at all and just belittles the debtor.

goldenblast, that was not a snide comment, but a fact. The section from the FDCPA that was quoted also has interpitations that are backed up in the courts. It boils down to perception. An example is looking at a provacy fence, one side is nice and smooth with the boards all lined up, while the other has posts and rails that hold the boards. It is not nearly as nice. In the end, it is the same fence, just a different perception/reality. When one is focused on thier view, thier opinion is directed to that view, regardless of which side you are on.

In the end, we can agree to disagree, but 9 times out of 10 the courts will say this situation is not a violation. The 1 time that they might would depend the philosophy of the judge, not the interpitation of the law. And yes, in collection cases the judges do go against precident...

I agree to disagree. Besides, I know just one instance of "abuse" or "harassment" is hard to prove, even if you taped the call, it would have to be a humdinger, like say they told you if you don't pay, you will go to jail. But one instance of a call the person felt was abusive? nah. I was just pointing out that it is abusive (we agree to disagree) but that not much can be done about it at this point. If it continues, keep collecting evidence and building a case. If you have to put up with it, oh well, at least they will eventually hang themselves.

Sorry but Golden and Paul are correct in that phone call would have been taken as a threat, at least to certain judges here in Central Florida-the fact that the collector told them to sell everything they own to pay a collector is seen by many judges here as a threatening collection call, some of our judges here consider anything like that as a threat against the debtor-to tell someone they need to sell their belongings to pay a collector that they never heard of or from before is considered a threatening call here in the 9th circuit court in Florida

Wow! A lot of discussion on this one. My point was simply that I didn't see where the OP had been "threatened" by the caller. The person was obviously an ass and extremely rude. I'd certainly have hung up on him and complained but I certainly didn't see a "threat" in there.

okay let me clarify my stance again.i looked up simms&assoc in the bar top right.the OP stated they tried to set up payments,but the idiot at simms wouldn't hear it so i'm not saying that is a threat,but it s a violation as i'm guessing from reading other threads that the OP was threatened into trying to pay this without documentation as simms is famous for that.i would be willing to wager the OP was threatened therefore tried to pay,but as usual simms wants the money now.the demand(yes i'm saying demand)to sell property was a violation.the threats that preceded is speculation by me,but going by threads about simms here.it's a good chance i'm right.

You probably are right, Paul.

A couple of things to keep in mind though.

If a collector calls you, they're going to ask for payment immediately. That's what they do. That's their job. That's the ideal outcome. When the excuse for non-payment is that you can't afford it, aren't working, etc., it's common practice to ask if you own anything of value that you could sell to raise the money. It's also common practice to suggest getting a part-time job (if already employed), or to look for work, etc. Another common suggestion is that you could borrow the money from a friend, family member or a 401K account. None of these things are wrong or illegal.

People get flustered when they owe someone money and that person (or its representative) come calling to collect. We know we're in debt. We don't have the money and we're frustrated and stressed. Just being reminded of the debt can "feel" like harrassment. It's not. A condescending tone can "feel" like harrassment. It's not. Being called every day (because you are call-screening) can "feel" like harrassment. It's not.

All of these things can become harrassment and, I think more times than not, that does happen. There are so many junk debt buyers out there who do not abide by the FDCPA that it will make your head spin. But, there are a few out there who do follow the rules. They do their jobs and do them well.

When a collector contacts you, your first line of defense is to pick up the phone. If it's their first contact, you remind them that you will expect to see a letter of collection in the mail within the next week. There's no reason to have a discussion on first contact and, by all means, don't admit you owe the debt until you get the facts! Once you receive that letter, if you question the validity of any portion of the debt, send a validation request.

Think about it. I could just start calling people out of the phone book and saying I work for ABC Credit Collection and asking them to settle their account with me or I'm going to sue them! How ridiculous is it that people ACTUALLY give some voice on the phone their checking account or credit card account information and GIVE THEM MONEY??? That's just crazy!

Do not be overcome with fear. It's just someone on the phone. It's not like they can do anything to you other than piss you off. And they can really only do that if YOU allow it!

Do NOT allow these people to get the better of you. Don't argue with them over the phone. Don't let them have that much control. Be polite, be calm and be in control. Keep the upper hand.

This whole thing is a process. Make them follow the rules!!!

above all else never even think about admiting to,or paying a debt to a voice on the phone.demand details in writing first.so i agree with that wholeheartedly.

EXCELLENT post OhioGal1!!!!!