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New, with urgent situation - HELP!

Date: Tue, 07/10/2007 - 12:08
Submitted by raheath629 on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 12:08
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Hi, I'm new to the forum and I've got a TIME-SENSITIVE situation for which any help would be MUCH appreciated!
Briefly, I was served a summons last Friday evening by a Chicago police officer (I do live in Chicago) stating that I'm being sued for an old debt originally with PROVIDIAN BANK. The court date is THIS THURSDAY, July 12. The debt was obtained for collection by CACH, LLC and the law firm handling it is ARTHUR B ADLER & ASSOCIATES.
I have no experience in handling anything like this. My wife wisely researched the process and some of the legal aspects; I, however, had called the law firm earlier in the day (yesterday) and made monthly payment arrangements to avoid court and pay off the debt.
I thought it was taken care of and that I would not be responsible for showing up in court or paying further legal fees (except for the $194 in fees the law firm had already tacked on - the debt itself is $1696.21). I was relieved since the summons stated I would be responsible for a $143 court-appearance fee and $350 in court costs incurred by Adler & Associates. But my wife is convinced that I still need to go to court because the law firm knows that if I don't show that I would be in default, even though the person I spoke with told me I didn't need to be there and that they (Adler) would show up for the purpose of dropping the case against me. Now I'm kicking myself for calling them and making payment arrangements, thus admitting to the debt verbally, though I haven't signed anything.
What should I do?
Should I still go to court? If so, what do I say?
Do I necessarily need an attorney, especially since I can't afford one?
Is the law firm deliberately trying to steer me in the wrong direction by saying I don't need to be there?
Is my wife right? (Just kidding, I know the answer to that ;) )
Thanks.


Welcome! I would call the Law Firm back and ask for this agreement to be put in writing stating the terms of the payment arrangement and what you have agreed to pay. This way you would not be liable for anything that they try and tack on at the last minute. If they have agreed to a payment arrangement, it's very strange that they are still going ahead with court. I wouldn't think they would need to.


Submitted by kscornell on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 12:13

kscornell

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Thank you both for your replies.

ks, they say they're snail-mailing me copies of the agreement, all but one of which I would sign and return. However, they would not arrive in time for this Thursday... Am I within my right to ask them to bring a copy of the agreement to court?

cajun, I don't remember if the guy I spoke with actually said they would attend the hearing for the purpose of dropping the case, or if they would contact somebody (at the courthouse?) in order to do it. Either way, the implication was that I wouldn't need to be there, though I'm starting to get the feeling it would be wise to show up after all.

Any thoughts on what I should bring or say?

rick


Submitted by raheath629 on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 12:53

raheath629

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Yes GO to court!! CACH does play VERY dirty!! They also told me they wud NOT file suit on me if i paid them a lump sum. Being naive I didnt' realize that a citaton was indeed a suit! They will say whatever needs to be said to get a default! Did u recieve a letter with numbered questions??
Also, i guess you could always say u agreed to payments under duress. Not sure on this one but the possibility of going to court scared u into admitting to a payment plan??
Good Luck and plz let us know how it turns out,
Ang


Submitted by Ang on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 12:57

Ang

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Ang, thank you also for your input.

Yes, the guy I spoke with mentioned something about a questionnaire being sent along with the copies of the payment agreement. He said just to fill it out and send it back with the other signed copies. Do you know what it is or what purpose it serves?

And how do these collection/law firms legally get away with their underhanded tactics, i.e. indicating that I don't need to show up to court when, in fact, I do? (Possibly just venting here)

rick


Submitted by raheath629 on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 13:06

raheath629

( Posts: 8 | Credits: )


The purpose of the questionaire is for court purposes!! I saw somewhere on here how to answer a summons, i'll try to find it again for u. Follow those direction exactly and make sure u have this questionaire, sent to the courthouse (filed) and also to them! When u send this to the atty's off u can also send a debt validation and cease and desist letter return reciept requested. (if u don't they will say they never got it)
Not sure how they can lie, but all i know is they do! Do u remember what the questionaire is?? Let me go find how to file an answer... brb with that and Good Luck,
Ang
P.S. Wow Cajun & Fed, CACH sure seems to be getting around these days huh???


Submitted by Ang on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 13:17

Ang

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Ok this is what i found:





Quote:


It is a written answer to the plaintiff's complaint, basically saying whether the plaintiff's statements are true or not.

Their complaint is usually numbered, and will list every argument they have for suing you. For Example:
Quote:
1. Plaintiff XYZ Credit Card is an Illinois Limited Liability Corporation with its principal place of business at 1234 Main St., Some City, IL, 54321.
2. Defendant is an individual who resides in Chicago, IL.
3. On or about 1/1/2002 defendant filled out a credit application with the plaintiff for a credit card. Plaintiff subsequently granted and extended a $1500 line of credit to the defendant.
4. Defendant defaulted on the account on 12/1/2003 when s/he failed to make timely payment as outlined in the agreement. Defendant has never cured the default.
5. Defendant is in arrears the amount of $6873.00.
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff requests that the Court enter judgment in favor of Plaintiff XYZ Credit Card and against Defendant John Smith for:
(1) Actual damages in the amount of $6873.00;
(3) Reasonable attorney fees and costs of suit;
(4) Such other and further relief as the Court deems appropriate.




Your answer would repsond to each numbered statement, saying weather you agree to their allegation or not. You would basically cut and paste their complaint, and then respond. If you don't know, you can formally say that:
Quote:
Defendant's Answer to Complaint
1. 1. Plaintiff XYZ Credit Card is an Illinois Limited Liability Corporation with its principal place of business at 1234 Main St., Some City, IL, 54321.
ANSWER: Defendant is without knowledge or information sufficient to form a belief as to the legal status or principal address of the Plaintiff.

2. Defendant is an individual who resides in Chicago, IL.
ANSWER: Defendant admits the statement in Paragraph 2.

3. On or about 1/1/2002 defendant filled out a credit application with the plaintiff for a credit card. Plaintiff subsequently granted and extended a $1500 line of credit to the defendant.
ANSWER: Defendant admits the statement in Paragraph 3.

4. Defendant defaulted on the account on 12/1/2003 when s/he failed to make timely payment as outlined in the agreement. Defendant has never cured the default. ANSWER: Defendant denies each and every allegation contained in Paragraph 4.

5. Defendant is in arrears the amount of $6873.00.
ANSWER: Defendant denies the statement made in Paragraph 5.



If you have any affirmative defenses (like you never opened an account, it was paid off, or included in a bankruptcy) then you would list those at the end under a heading "Affirmative Defenses".

The reason for you filing an answer, is to determine what you and the plaintiff disagree on. Anything you disagree on will need to be taken to trial for the Plaintiff to prove. If you really don't disagree to any of the material facts, then the Plaintiff can motion for a summary judgment without having to go through a whole trial.


Submitted by Ang on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 13:21

Ang

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Ang, again, thanks for taking the time.

The list of complaints is actually part of my Summons packet. It's pretty much the same as you described:

[center:b9ec4007d1]VERIFIED COMPLAINT AT LAW

NOW COMES the Plaintiff CACH,LLC, by and through its attorneys, ADLER & ASSOCIATES,LTD., and for its complaint against the Defendant(s), [Me], alleges and states as follows:

1. That Plaintiff acquired by purchase assignment from the original credit issuer...
2. That upon information and belief from the representations of the assignor...[/center:b9ec4007d1]
You get the picture.

The only one I disagree with is the one that states I have to pay "reasonable" attorney's fees in the sum of $350, since, per the payment agreement, the only amount on top of my balance was $194 in fees. Will this stand up once the court gets a copy of the payment agreement that states my grand total?

I'm also concerned because I won't get my copy of the agreement, which was supposed to be mailed today, before the court date. Can I compel them to bring a copy of the agreement per our conversation?

You also mentioned a debt validation and cease and desist letter - how would I get these?

Finally, is the questionnaire the law firm is supposedly sending me the same as the one I already have in my summons? And do you think it's a tactic of theirs to mail the documents to me in too short a time for me to have them for my court date?

rick


Submitted by raheath629 on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 13:55

raheath629

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Great advice from everyone here, as usual. But there is another part of this case that troubles me: Rick said that he got served last Friday for a court date this Thursday, which is only 6 days in the future. (at that time). In what I have heard about the court systems in various states, and in my own dealings as a juror, you have always gotten at least 30 days if longer to respond to a supoena. Am I making a mountain out of a molehill here? And since this is civil, not criminal, wouldn't it be on the longer side?
And wouldn't Rick be entitled to a fair amount of time to prepare his defense? I don't think he got it here!


Submitted by kscornell on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 14:28

kscornell

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ks, I've been thinking about that too. It leaves practically no time to prepare.

Ang, I see now what you mean about re-reading the compaint and how the burden of proof is on them. I noticed in the first point that it states the plaintiff acquired my account by purchase from the original credit issuer. How would I know how they acquired it or if they are indeed the owners of the account? So, we won't be agreeing with that point...

rick


Submitted by raheath629 on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 14:46

raheath629

( Posts: 8 | Credits: )


UPDATE:

I just spoke with the same person as yesterday at Adler & Associates and he insists that there is NO hearing this Thursday. He said this Thursday was a "return date," I assume for a response on my part to the summons, and that a court date would only be necessary if I didn't sign and return the documents he says he mailed yesterday in a timely fashion, which I obviously plan on doing. He said this date, if needed, would be July 26.

I told him I still plan on being there this Thursday; he said I'm well within my right to do that and to see that nothing will happen.

Not sure what to make of this.

rick


Submitted by raheath629 on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 15:01

raheath629

( Posts: 8 | Credits: )


Paying on a debt once collections start is not the end of the world.There are too many high pressured collectors duping people. Poster just has to realize court can be a gamble.Either you win or lose. I am at a loss about the adding up comment.Anyone experienced in dealing with courts or lawyers know there can be serious untruths in legal documents.It would stand as truth to the legal system unless and until it is challenged. I am simply offering poster all available options including going before a judge. Granted if you lose you will get a judgement but this collector is well known for playing dirty and getting judgements whether you are paying or not.


Submitted by cajunbulldog on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 15:45

cajunbulldog

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My point was since he had already made payment arrangements, to me, the debt had been settled out of court. If it was me, all I would have asked for at that point is written confirmation of that. If payment arrangements had been made, wouldn't it be like Rick agreeing to the debt's validity? Just my two cents.....


Submitted by kscornell on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 15:50

kscornell

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You do have a very good point kscornell.The problem is this particular collector has a nasty habit of getting a judgement even when you are paying.If he can secure a written contract from them agreeing to payment terms then he can rest his bones and not sweat getting screwed.Review what happened to Ang.The situation is almost 100% the same and they slammed her with a judgement that myself and a very good attorney are in the process of trying to vacate.


Submitted by cajunbulldog on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 16:04

cajunbulldog

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All very good questions here also! I also think he should have had at least 20 days to answer this summons, what i had! This part confuses me a bit but if you read it as a court date make sure u GO!!
Can't hurt.
Also file ur answers with the clerk of court and send them a copy of it also (atty). Since you did agree to payment agreement it does hurt a little but i'm thinking, if you go before a judge and he is willing to listen u can ALWAYS say u were paniced (duress) and made these arrangements before u knew ur legal rights... may work, may not...
As Cajun said this is a gamble but ur gonna have to pay it back anyway! EIther under ur arrangments or what the judge decides! Also i know in my state there is a cap on atty fees and interest that they are legally allowed to charge!
But again, as Cajun stated stop calling them! ONLY speak to them thru USPS so u have proof of everything! And with CACH make sure of this cuz they denied EVERYTHING i ever sent them except coincidentally they DID recieve two separate letters with payment arrangments! AMAZING, huh?
Good Luck with this and try to contact a consumer lawyer in ur area! Ya never know one might be available to help even with short notice!
Ang
P.S. Also remember if you accept payment arrangements with them then u wont' have a judgment on ur credit report.... this is totally ur decision just make sure ur there in court on Thursday!


Submitted by Ang on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 16:19

Ang

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I'm back, everybody, and with UPDATES.

All of the feedback has been INCREDIBLY helpful; I am indebted to you all.

I got home from work about ten minutes ago and what do you know, the papers from the law firm were in my mailbox! (Only 2 days - possibly because they were also mailed from Chicago?)

Instead of a 'Complaint,' as in the summons, it's titled 'Stipulation and Order,' complete with the terms - IN WRITING - of our payment agreement. Not knowing any better, I would say it looks legit, though I still plan on showing up to court tomorrow.

I'm reading through it now and the only part I don't quite understand is the wording of the final stipulation, which says:

4. By signing this Stipulation the parties named herein hereby acknowledge entering their general appearance...

General appearance?

Overall, though, I feel better having this in writing, especially as it pertains to them not being able to tack on extra fees.

rick


Submitted by on Wed, 07/11/2007 - 15:56

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This is referred to as a stip payment with the backing of the court.Read it very carefully.It should state something to the effect that parties are in an agreement and as long as contract terms are upheld no judgement will be entered.If you break contract,they normally would get judgement automatically.Read over everything and post back.


Submitted by cajunbulldog on Wed, 07/11/2007 - 16:00

cajunbulldog

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Well, I showed up at the courthouse today but there was no hearing. The people working there looked at my papers and told me today was not a court date, but that I could file an appearance to dispute the suit if I wanted.

Since I had already received copies, in writing, of our payment agreement, I decided not to file an appearance as I'm fine with the terms of the agreement. I just plan to sign the forms and return them. Not to mention the appearance would have cost $140, which I don't have.

jj, doesn't the written agreement constitute a binding contract? I don't understand how they could get past that, but of course I'm not an attorney. Nor do I have an attorney, and frankly I'm not big on the idea of getting one at this point considering the cost and the fact I have no idea how to go about it.

Do law firms generally offer free consults for this sort of thing?

rick


Submitted by on Thu, 07/12/2007 - 19:38

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Ang, I forgot you had sent me that link for naca - I'll check it out.

My original summons said I had to be there, but I received the stipulation from the law firm yesterday which had the terms of the payment agreement. I was thinking that replaced the summons as far as the court was concerned?

rick


Submitted by on Thu, 07/12/2007 - 20:12

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ks, the people working at the courthouse looked at my papers and told me there was no hearing, but I could file an appearance to dispute it if I wanted. If I hadn't received the copies of the payment agreement the day before I probably would have gone ahead and filed it.

rick


Submitted by on Thu, 07/12/2007 - 20:23

( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


Hello. I have the same law firm after me. I never admitted to my debt and showed to court for my summons. I name was never called. I approached the lawyer representing Adler and she told me to come back Dec. 10th. THis is a pain because I had to miss another day of work. After court in October, I sent a certified DV letter to their law firm and no response. I am due in court on Monday and I plan to deny the debt and explain to the judge that I verbally requested debt validation on 10/15/07 and I sent a certified letter requesting debt validation.....still no response from Adler. Any ideas or suggestions while I attend court on Monday?


Submitted by on Fri, 12/07/2007 - 13:59

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Katie, it sounds like you've got'em by the balls. Now squeeze, hard. They have to validate the debt if asked. It's not optional. Take your copy of the DV letter and the green card where they signed for it. From what I understand, that oughtta be enough to get them off your case. Hopefully, somebody with more expertise will chime in shortly.


Good luck!

Wulf


Submitted by unclewulf on Fri, 12/07/2007 - 16:02

unclewulf

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can u please help me? I am having the same problem with Adler and associates. I made payment arrangements with them in august, now theyare tring to sue my exhusband saying he is in default. We were told we didn't have to go to court, that the case would be dropped. We go back to court for "status" in December. Any suggestions???
Thank you!


Submitted by on Tue, 10/28/2008 - 18:03

( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


I too have a simular court order however they are leaving citation's wired to my front door and are not leaving them with a peson 16yrs or older,as luck would have it we do not use the front door of our residence and the filing time(10 days after I was served has passed. Do I have any recourse? the filing deadline was today at 10am. Must a reply be typed or can it be hand written?


Submitted by on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 20:45

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Yes i think they're playing with u! Answer this summons u have and make sure it's filed in a timely manner!! Once they get a default, they will tack on loads of fees!!
To get these form letters look in the do it yourself section of this forum but re-write them to meet ur needs!
Also, do not agree to all of there questionaire since u did NOT initally have this debt thru them!! Make them prove they legally own this! Maybe re-read the sample i sent up above and see what u can deny. THe burden of proof is on them now, since they're the ones suing u!!
Now of course, plz know this ONLY my personal opinion and i am in NO way an atty! IF at all possible try to look up a consumer atty in ur area who may be willing to take this on..... i think it's www.naca.org
Good Luck,
Ang


Submitted by Ang on Tue, 07/10/2007 - 14:05

Ang

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