Problem with Arrowhead Investments
Date: Thu, 06/19/2008 - 00:46
I got a $300 payday loan from Arrowhead Investments the week of April 23rd 2008. They were supposed to take the entire $ 390 repayment out of my payday on May 16 2008. They did debit my acct on May 16th but they only took the $ 90.00 interest payment. Since they were closed over the weekend I was searching the internet for their phone #, address, any info about them really. That is when I ran across this site. After reading alot of the posts, especially one by "cmneill" who posted a letter and response about his experience with Arrowhead Investments. I started researching their company and followed "cmneill" lead. I found out also that Arrowhead was not liscensed to do business in my state of Washington, just like cmneill's letter stated. I contact WA State DOL and found no info on them, I called the DOL and they also told me they were not liscensed to do Business in WA State. Monday morning came (I had called and left a message over the weekend asking why only $ 90.00 was debited out of my acct). The manager, Katie (stated in cmneill's letter) left me a phone message saying "um yeah geez I don't know why that was done but just give me a call and we can debit the remaining $ 210 but call me before 11 AM as I will be in meetings all day". Katie called back an hour later and said "just give me a call and authorize a debit of $ 210 and we'll get this taken care of". About 1/2 hour later a woman named "Wendy" called and asked me to call her back. Well I called Katie back and told her I found out Arrowhead was not liscensed to do Business in WA State and asked for the business UBI # (which is required to do bus. in WA state - this IS their liscense #). She first said they didn't have one then she stated "they don't give that out to just anyone" I responded by saying "well would you give it to The WA State Dept of Liscensing because they are VERY interested in having it". I told her (repeated cmneill's letter) that our contract is not legal, I was not legally permitted to enter into a contract with them. Well after this Katie started SCREAMING at me - saying I have to pay this, that it didn't matter they were located in Utah and get this SHE SCREAMED I WAS STEALING FROM THEM!!!
OMG - after what I see they do to people! She went on and on that it didn't matter I was in WA - I entered into a contract with them and I HAD to pay this. I also told Katie that if they would have taken the $ 390 like they were supposed to and didn't try to suck more interest off me, I would have never researched their company in the first place - well this really pissed her off. She told me she was going to debit the $ 210 anyway without my auth. I told her I had already alerted my bank and if they tried to debit anything they and my bank would be willfully and knowingly be committing fraud against WA Stae. I ended the phone call as I had to go to work. I faxed my letter (off cmneill's format basically saying the same thing just changing names/states etc.). And stated I would be contacting the BBB and FTC about them. I didn't hear anything back............until today. I considered the case closed. Someone called me at work today (I work at a major hospital and they are very strict about calls like this on the hospital phone lines). She asked for me I said I wasn't there and hung up. She called back, I hung up again. She called my co-worker and my co-worker transferred her to me. She started off the conversation by saying "well I see by you hanging up on me that you are not going to pay this bill". I said who is this and she stated "I am representing Arrowhead Investments". I said OH and told her the matter had been settled. She said you still owe $ 210.00. I told her Arrowhead Investments were not liscenced to do business in WA State. She said did you or did you not enter into a contract with them and I responded "an illegal one". She said "Oh you entered into an illegal contract" and I said "I didn't find that out until afterward". She was extremely rude, aggressive and wouldn't even let me speak. She made the comment "You work at a hospital - you are not a lawyer - if you are going to quote laws you should know them". I DO KNOW MY RIGHT AND YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A LAWYER TO KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. When I stated Arrowhead did not have a UBI # for WA State she said they did and gave me UBI # 325-070-760978 and when I checked this on WA State Website there is no such number. She asked to speak with my Supevisor and I said that was not going to be possible. She said she had to verify employment. I said "Well you're talking to me and I'm at work". She said "you work at _________" and I said yes. I told her I had faxed Arrowhead and asked them NOT to contact me at work and by WA State Law they couldn't. She said that's fine and that she wouldn't be contacting me again because they were going to have my wages garnished. The call ended. I DID NOT GET THIS PERSON'S NAME OR THE NAME OF THE COMPANY. BIG MIstake! I don't know who it was that called, only that they represented Arrowhead. I've read posts on here about several "collection" companies that work with Arrowhead. I am afraid now that they are going to keep contacting my co-workers and supervisor. I don't know how to stop it. I don't know who to contact now. I don't want to get my employer involved. It's also against the law in WA State to threaten Wage Garnishment, I never received anything in writing or by email from any company, which they are supposed to do by WA Law. I don't know what to do now. Any advice on how to handle these dirty b'turds when I don't even know who it was that called? or who Arrowhead "sold" this illegal contract to? If I contact Arrowhead do they HAVE to tell me if the contract was sold and to whom? Also I HAVE closed the bank account (checking and savings) that Arrowhead DID have access to. I opened a new account elsewhere.
You did the right thing by closing your account, thank goodness
You did the right thing by closing your account, thank goodness you did that!! They can't garnish your wages without a court order, and they can't get a court order because they aren't legal. Fax and mail them a letter revoking any and all wage assignments, you may want to also include in that letter a cease and desist, and an ACH revocation. Just cover all your bases. It is a federal offense for them to call you and harass you at work after you asked them not to call you there. I am posting your pdl laws in the next post and will try to give you a sample letter for wage assignment revocation when I have more time, I'm afraid I need to get to work now, but hang tight because I am sure someone else will be along to advise you if I am not available to do so. One more thing, we do advocate paying back the principal amount, it is the moral thing to do. I would suggest you do that with a money order only! :wink:
PLEASE file complaints about this company to your Attroney General, The Federal Trade commission (link in my signature) and the BBB! This is very important! You can do all this online too!
You will find the Payday loan laws for Washington here (just sel
You will find the Payday loan laws for Washington here (just select your state),
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/paydayloan/explain-pdls-laws.html
response
Thank you for the response. I don't understand though why you would tell me to pay the principal when it is an illegal contract. Isn't that just encouraging the companies to continue doing this? I did struggle with the moral aspect as I am an honest hard working person. They debited $ 90 when they were supposed to take $ 390. If they would have been honest they would have been paid back with interest. I don't feel I owe them anything else because the contract is illegal. What if all companies made fraudulent contracts and tried to enforce them - and it worked! I did contact Arrowhead Investments this morning and they told me they sold my "illegal" contract to Icollect on May 22nd (well over a month afer I faxed a letter to them stating this was not a legal contract). I called Icollect, left all my information and am awaiting a call back to find out who bought this contract. I also let Icollect know they had bought an illegal contract and sold an illegal contract and when I contact the FTC later today I will name them, along with Arrowhead Investments and the "mysterious" collection agency (if I ever get their name) in the complaint. Will keep activity posted.
fax and email arrowhead a letter containing the following langua
fax and email arrowhead a letter containing the following language, filling in the blanks as appropriate
Arrowhead Imvestment
Via email to [email]s@arrowheadinvestment.com[/email]
To Whom It May Concern
It has come to my attention that you a payday loan I have with you was made in violation of Washington State Administrative codes governing Check Cashers/Sellers and Payday Lenders (Chapter 208-630 WAC Check cashers and sellers - regulation of), wherein it states that payday lenders are required to be licensed by the State of Washington. This law applies to any payday loans made to Washington State Residents regardless of the state of origin or contractual jurisdiction agreements.
Because you were conducting payday lending business in violation of this administrative code and the governing law directing its creation. This violation renders our contract illegal in the State of Washington, rendering ay terms agreed to therein null and void. Under the above noted law, loans made illegally are not collectable.
Effective immediately, I hereby permanently revoke any and all authorizations, assignments or rights granted to Arrowhead Investment, its successors and/or assigns to electronically access any account owned by me.
On advice of counsel, prior to either initiating civil action and/or requesting that Washington State authorities investigate your business practices (including those of any potentially related businesses) I am requesting a refund of fees paid in the amount of $_____ Understanding that this request is an attempt to avoid pursuit of other remedies, I am willing to agree in writing not to pursue additional civil action to seek redress.
I may be willing to explore other options to resolving this situation and I look forward to your written reply
Regards,
your name
Chances are they will send you a letter closing your account and refusing to refund any fees. good luck
Arrowhead
Thank you so much moderator ii. I am impressed with the letter. I will fax this to Arrowhead when I go to work at 2 PM. Just one more question. When I called Arrowhead this morning they told me they no longer have the debt - they "sold" it to Icollect. I haven't received a call back from Icollect yet to find out who they sold it to. Can Arrowhead still do anything in regards to his? This is the letter I faxed to Arrowhead on May 19th (which they then sold on May 22nd, 3 days later, knowing the contract was not legal):
May 19, 2008
Arrowhead Investments, Inc.
32 West 200 South # 350
Salt Lake City, UT
84101
CC:
Better Business Bureau
WA State Attorney General
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
It has come to my attention that your company is not liscensed in the State of Washington, which is required for all payday lenders loaning to Washington residents, regardles of the location of the business. So, I was not legally permitted to enter into a loan contract with yu.
Based on my research of your company, advice from the WA State Attorney General and the Department of Liscensing/Business Division, our contract is not valid. Therefore, I am immediately and permanently revoking my authorization for yu to debit my accounts. This revocation is in effect for any representative, parent company, affilate or subsidiary.
I furthermore request that you only contact me by email at [email]_________@yahoo.com[/email] or correspondence to my PO Box (Po box address given). Do not contact me while I am at work or my employe by telephone, written letter, email or any other means, Per WA Law. Per WA State law "if I request this in writing to your company, you cannot by WA State law contact my employer or mself while I am at work.
Additionally, I am requesting that you immediately place me in a do not loan status, and mark my account paid in full with a zero balance due to the fact that our contract is illegal in the State of Washington.
I am faxing this request to you and also emailing it to you. I expect your affirmative response by email within 24 hours of receipt of the email or I will request the assistance from the State of Washington in seeking injunctive relief from this contract.
Respectfully,
My biggest concern right now is finding out who Icollect sold this to and most importantly stopping this collection agency from calling my supervisor, co-workers and me at work and threatening me, which upset me very much yesterday. Can this collection agency put on a wage garnishment? I know it has to go thru a judge but can this collection agency go thru a court in their state without notifying me in any way? and possibly really get a wage garnishment? I have never received an email or paper mail from this collection agency. I apprecite your help so much and am so thankful I ran across this site. I have referred many people to it already. Thank you again.
[quote]Thank you for the response. I don't understand though why
[quote]Thank you for the response. I don't understand though why you would tell me to pay the principal when it is an illegal contract. Isn't that just encouraging the companies to continue doing this? I did struggle with the moral aspect as I am an honest hard working person. They debited $ 90 when they were supposed to take $ 390. If they would have been honest they would have been paid back with interest. I don't feel I owe them anything else because the contract is illegal. What if all companies made fraudulent contracts and tried to enforce them - and it worked! I did contact Arrowhead Investments this morning and they told me they sold my "illegal" contract to Icollect on May 22nd (well over a month afer I faxed a letter to them stating this was not a legal contract). I called Icollect, left all my information and am awaiting a call back to find out who bought this contract. I also let Icollect know they had bought an illegal contract and sold an illegal contract and when I contact the FTC later today I will name them, along with Arrowhead Investments and the "mysterious" collection agency (if I ever get their name) in the complaint. Will keep activity posted. [/quote]
Basically, I told you that because it's a moral obligation, but it's also a personal choice too. I can see your point of view, however, hopefully you can see mine, as a Moderator here, I feel it is not in the best interest of this community to advocate NOT paying back what you borrowed simply because a company is illegal, I wouldn't want to encourage people to run out there and borrow money from Internet based pdl's knowing they were illegal from obtaining information from this website, with no intentions of paying them back. :)
reply
amen shazz,if you borrow money you should pay it back.you know the saying,two wrongs don't make a right.
you are right
Yes you are right. I will never ever do business with any kind of payday loan company as long as I live again. I will never seek one out locally or online. This truly is a nightmare that I just want to end but you're right - two wrongs don't make it right. But something really should be done about these companies. I have filed a complaint with the FTC and hopefully they can take care of at least one of them. I mean, why are there laws against this stuff if they are not enforced. They shouldn't get away with it. They are breaking laws. Anyway, Thank you and I do understand both sides of this.
You're doing the right thing by complaining, I think the more co
You're doing the right thing by complaining, I think the more complaints about these companies, the better the chances of bringing an awareness to what is happening out there in the cyber world. I always encourage everyone to file complaints with the BBB, FTC and thier Attorney General.It's the only way they have of knowing what is taking place with these Illegal IPDL companies, and takes little effort to fill out a complaint online. :)
one of the key elements in notifying them about the legality of
one of the key elements in notifying them about the legality of the contract is to put yourself in a position to better negotiate a settlement on your terms.. not theirs. regarding the arrowhead sale or assignment of the contract.. under washington law any action to collect must be done by a CA licensed in the state of washington and any suit to collect must be conducted by a washington licensed attorney. should they in fact sue, the legality of the contract and more importantly the explicit provision under washington law regarding the collectability of illegal payday loans provides a very good defense against judgement.