Geneva Roth....strikes again!

WHAT!?!?!?! :shock: Geneva Roth got your friggin new bank account information? From a totally new bank? Am I reading this right? :shock:

Oh yeah....I'm freakin out here! This is twice in the last two weeks. The first time took me a solid week to get my money back and now I'm dealing with it again.
Cannr, I haven't done anything online, etc. I haven't used my card online or my account number. I don't know how this happended. But now I have to deal with no bank account again. OMG!!!! I'm ready to quit!

flow-WTF??! HOW????

flow-How long has it been since you closed the other account?

bflow, if I am remembering correctly, you are at a completely different bank now from when you had the pdl's, right? Completely different. Right? I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out how in the hell they got your new account information. They would need your new routing number and new account number. I'm sitting here trying to figure out what could have tipped them off to your new bank.

I don't know how. You know how freaked you are, imagine signing on to the internet banking and seeing GENEVA ROTH 400.00! OMG!!!! I thought I was rid of thosed nasty ***es! NOT!!!!!

The other account (at a totally different bank) was closed in July (but technically once they let it sit and acquire all those od fees for the 30 days they leave it "active" but "open") I guess it was Aug! And lovely bank that I was with for 10 years REFUSES to help with getting my balance back to 0, even though I have ALL the backup to prove that I did all me revocation of debits, etc... in plenty of time to make it right! LIFE IS GREAT RIGHT NOW!!!!

With luck, goudah or someone (anyone?) can give us a hint as to how the hell they got your new bank account information. I would have shit if I saw that. bflow, this sucks. Are you going to have to go through all the trouble like you did before to get a new account? WTF? I'm sooo confused right now. How the hell did they get your new bank account information? This is making me crazy. I'm so sorry. But someone here has to have at least a "clue" as to how this pdl can track down your new account number at a new bank. What avenues do they use? We need to know.

I wish I could tell you, at least then maybe I would know what I did that could have put my account number out there. My husband asked me about that spyware stuff or if I had gotten any type of phishing emails (which I just delete anyway). I don't know.
Thankfully, he has his own checking account and we can use it for deposits. But our bank, they buttholes that wouldn't take the fees off is sitting at 1100 overdrawn and have put it to the telecheck system. So, due to that we can't write checks at ANY type of store, etc. Just use our card but that's better than nothing I guess. RIGHT?

I know your old bank was a bunch of jerks. But if you can't write checks, I guess that's okay if you have a debit card. It still sucks though. I still am in total disagreement with your old bank; however, who am I? :lol: As for your new bank and being debited by geneva roth. You know what? I would actually call and ask them how the hell this illegal company got your new account information. They may have some "insight" as to how illegal companies can find new bank accounts. This needs to be known. This is just bizarre.

I don't know, but I am really sick from all this. Like you don't have enough to deal with already with the fact of trying to get out of this mess in the first place.

Please let us know the status of everything, bflow. :(

Bflow, this is one of the things that scares the hell out of me, and I am hearing it more everyday. New banks being hit by PDLs. I wonder how they do get the new info.Every person that this has happened to swears that they have not given out the new info.I know I keep mine under lock and key, but I still do nit feel safe.

I wrote a post about the same issue a couple days ago and they also got access to my new account. I dont know how and I have a feeling I still owe them but legally what can I do as far as Geneva is concerned since they try to do an unauthorize debit to my account. I have a feeling if anyone apply for a new payday loan some kind of way your account information is sold over to different companies. I think what happen to me and what happen to bflow is geneva roth prolly got your name ran a check and found you have a new account prolly through about PDL site. Now I got to figure out how to deal with geneva roth. Morally if I owe I will pay it but since they did an unauthorize debit what to do what to do.

This is just unbelievable. I have been taking most of my money out of the bank as soon as I get paid because I am so scared that this will happen.

I think what might be going on is this. Some banks will do a hard pull on your credit report when you open an account. Since the PDLs have access to our social security number, they can then pull our credit and see if there are any banks on there. If they see one, they might just take a random chance and try to fish the information from an inept employee. That's the only logic I can come up with. Bank account numbers are supposed to be extremely safeguarded though.

I can't believe that we are going to have to be afraid for the rest of our lives that these bloodsuckers are going to hit our new accounts. This just can't be possible.

Jen5276,
I believe it definitely starts with our social security numbers. I got an email this morning from Geneva Point/LoanPointUSA saying the withdrawal for $400 was returned due to NSF and to give them a call. Im trying to get a solid plan in mind before I call these people and go off on them. I dont need to go off on these people but I got one thing I got to check out before I talk to Geneva and that my old bank account with geneva and also check out the original agreement I did with Geneva. I didnt have the money in my account so the only charge i got charged for is an overdraft fee from my bank but now I know geneva is lurking around my account so now I got to be alert on what to do as far as my account is concerned. If its determined I still owe them (and i think i do) I will do Western Union and only western union. They are slime and I hate that I had to deal with them.

Yeah, it does happen every once in a while. Jen is right in that they can pull your reports, see what banks may have inquiries, and then try to debit the account. Some banks will allow a business with a signed contract to debit an account with a social security number. One way to reduce the chance of that happening is to go with a bank that only checks your credit when you open a new account. Businesses viewing your credit report don't see the bank's name when they do a soft pull. But they would see the inquiries on Chexsystems. One of Chex's purposes is to alert banks when a consumer is running around opening a bunch of bank accounts, so inquiries do show up.

There are other ways too. Like in Darnell's case, another pdl had his account info. That is the number 1 reason how these places get the new account info. NEVER TAKE OUT ANOTHER PDL. That will drastically reduce your chances of getting your new account hit.

The other thing is paying collection agencies or other types of businesses. They may keep the information and or share it with some database. Technically account numbers are not supposed to be there, but in reality I'm sure they are.

I wouldn't be worried. Seriously, this doesn't happen very often. I have not dealt with my pdl's for a year + and I've never had any of my bank accounts hit. The odds of it happening are not good.

goudah, please clarify your first paragraph for me. I understand a pdl getting your account number if you've applied for another pdl (stupid). I understand a pdl can get your account number if a shady CA sells/shares your information. However, I'm confused on what you mean by only going to a bank that checks your credit when you open a new account. What? Do you mean when you go to a new bank (as advised) to open an account, don't they all do the same kind of "check"? Like the chexsystems check? Or do different banks do different things when you open a new account? I'm being paranoid here. Because if like you and jen say, the pdl can pull our credit report and see the bank on it because the bank did an inquiry? This scares me. Also, even if the pdl did pull our credit and saw the bank on there, how in the world would they get the account number? Because they claim they have a signed contract to debit the account? Even though you didn't authorize this bank or account number to be debited? Because I know on my loan documents, my bank name, routing number, and account number were on there as the account to be debited. Wouldn't that mean I gave permission to debit THAT account only? Not every Tom, Dick, and Harry account that I might have?

Different banks do different kinds of pulls. That's why I always tell people that just because they are on Chexsystems does NOT mean they can't open an account somewhere. I have a whole list of banks in every state they doesn't use Chexsystems to verify new accounts. Some banks do a soft pull of your credit reports, some pull your Chexsystems report, some check telecheck, and some still go off of good old ID.

Banks that pull your Chexsystems report will then show on your Chex report as an inquiry. Your Chex report is designed to show all inquiries to alert banks of people opening numerous accounts. So if someone pulls your Chex report, and you opened an account at a Chex using bank, they could pretty easily find out what your new bank was. But if they check your credit report, soft pulls do not show business names to other businesses looking at the report.

Some banks will allow businesses to debit accounts with a signed contract and your social security number. For example, some pdl's put in their contract that after default you give them permission to debit any account you may have. They show this to the bank as proof of authorization. The bank allows it to go through.

This all has me so worried. I know that I am extremely paranoid about this happening. I know all the good advice that I have been given, and I know it only happens once in a while. Still it gets me nervous. I keep my account info so safe, I give it to no one, and will never ever apply for another loan. There is not much else I can do to protect myself. I need to have a working checking account, so for the time being i check my balance 100 times a day

Lordy, lordy, lordy. What have we all gotten ourselves into here? Thank you, goudah. You've helped me understand (again). :wink:

Seriously, you guys. I had 10 pdl's . . . . None have hit any of my new bank accounts. Odds are BETTER that an ID theif will steal your account info and spend your money then one of these pdl's . . . . . Don't worry about it happening. It's not worth the time. You've done your part to protect your money.

If you are really paranoid, just split it up. Have some money in one account at one bank, and some money in another account at a different bank. That way at least if one gets hit you are not broke while you wait for the bank to credit the money back.

Ye now I am thinking and its important NOT to get another payday loan again. If I need money bad enough then i find another job or get a part time 2nd job. PDL arent the way to go because there so much that can happen to us and so much we can lose iin the process. Im glad for the most part I have the PDL paid off, there might be a couple that will appear in the near future I will have to take care of and I will deal with them when time comes up, but as of right now its crazy still having the PDL as a part of you wherever you go. Arghhhh

I wonder if there is verbage in the Geneva Roth PDL contract that states they can hit whatever account they need to in order to recover their money.

How about a stupid question Goudah...



When members do their letters and revoke the various permissions we gave them..can they revoke this part of the "contract" as well?

Yes, which is why I always say to revoke "any and all" bank accounts I may have. If you only revoke the specific bank account, then technically they would still have authorization.

Some of the pdl contracts I've seen will state this is unrevokable. But legally it can't be unrevokable.

Thank you. I started to panic there for a minute.

Okay, jumping in here. I have done what goudah suggested some time ago. I have more than one bank account because, like kash, I am extremely paranoid anymore. If one gets hit & I have to fight it, I still have another bank. I won't have to worry about finding a new bank, opening a new account, etc. Also, use the words goudah suggested. I believe my letter (if I remember & I certainly could be wrong) said that I revoked their debit authorization of any bank account. I really am not positive. But I do know that as time went on, whenever I'm dealing with any of them, I make sure to say ANY bank account that I may have. However, let me also point this out, they'll do it anyway. We've all figured that out by now.

Cannr - you are so right. I just wanted to know and ask becuase we have been in this for awhile and I know people read thses threads before they finally post.

Ahhhhh...... always thinking roxy, always thinking. Good job. :wink:

Thank you oh wise one!! :)

People, Geneva Ross or anyone cannot take money from an account that they are not authorized to (especially if it is a new account). That's a criminal act. I would contact the local authorities as well as federal authorities.

This is an interesting thread going. Thanks for the post, PDL. I'm just assuming that these illegal companies will stop at nothing to get 'their' money, even if by illegal means. Which is why I posted the question regarding the loan documents stating the one particular bank account was authorized, not any other. However, as goudah pointed out, these pdl's usually do put in their contracts that we authorize them to debit any account if the loan goes into default. I wish I had one of my loan documents in front of me to quote from, but they're home. My question is how do they "account" for debiting your bank account? I guess they can just go ahead and do it. Not like the bank has to authorize it or anything. Kind of like how I have my car insurance debited from my account each month? I gave them my information, they just debit it. So, if the pdl gets your new bank account information, they just debit it. Am I going in the right direction here?

I agree with PDLinvestigator. It is a criminal act and if it happens to me, I will report it the appropriate authorities. I don't care what is in their "contracts" a company cannot just debit any bank account they choose.

I just looked over some of the paperwork I have from my two defaulted MTE loans, with United and Oneclick. All it says is that if you send them a check, they have the right to debit that account.

Yes, it is a criminal act, but they don't care. It's not like they will be prosecuted for it. Plus it's not quite like someone getting your account number and commiting fraud, since you did do business with them and there is a "dispute" about the balance owed. That can muddy the waters a bit.

You can dispute, and you will win. But that doesn't stop it from happening in the first place, which is what all the questions were about.

cannr-yes your letter states "any" bank account. Just thought I'd let ya know.

I agree Goudah, but whether or not there is a dispute about the balance owed does not give them the right to just debit any bank account they might find of ours. But you are right, they don't care that they are committing a crime, because that's what they do!

Oh, thank you, lmk! I swear, I was going to walk straight in the door when I got home from work and read what it said! LOL! Now I don't have to! I was hoping that's what it said! :D

Mine didn't, it just said "my" bank account! :cry:

ANY bank account you have is YOUR bank account. Unless you specifically identified one bank account it should still cover, but if in doubt resend again. It won't hurt anything.

I agree with Pybasj. Your bank account could be any bank account. Unless you said " I revoke authorization to debit acct# XXXXXXX at Bank of the X, you should be fine.

Well, in my case, I did NOT apply for a new PDL (nor will i EVER!!!) and I do not pay anything directly out of my bank account or online anymore. So, all I can think is that on my chex report is a list of several banks that checked that report when I opened the account and they have my social security # and DL#...so, it's not that hard (depending on the bank) to get the new information. The hard part is that I have to wait for them to credit the money back every time this happens.

Once I get a response from the bank regarding the very professional, pleading letter I sent to them today (via certified mail :) )If they are not willing to wipe the slate clean, I am going to call T&C and see what they can do to help me with the remaining 3 PDL's and the bank so I can get past this mess and maybe not be sued by the bank!

pyb, thank you for posting that! Simple people, like me, need it to be spelled out in simple language. LOL! You make perfect sense. When you say I no longer authorize you to debit my bank account, well, that means your bank account. Bank account where? Doesn't matter. It's your bank account. Can you come to my house and sit by me and explain things to me? LOL! :lol: I need like a big blank chart and things put in writing with words no longer than ten letters! LOL!

Wow!! bflow30, sorry to hear that. I guess i have to be very careful with Geneva cause I still owe those suckers some money. They have not been bothering me but you never know if they find my new bank account information. Thanks for letting us know, thats why I am not leaving any money in my account and i am doing money orders to pay my bills. Good Luck!

Thanks Everyone! The worst part (other than the fact that they hit the account) is that I have to close another account and that's after I wait a freakin week to get my money back again!

Geneva called me at work yesterday and wanted $570 more. I told that man we couldn't even be sure I still owed money yet, since they illegally debited my account twice (once I got it back and this time I still don't know yet), so, I'm not even paying a dime until I know. He got quiet but didn't say anything.
Then I told him I would pay any unpaid balance in $100 payments he said that was unacceptable, it had to $180. I said I couldn't afford that and he asked if I had a lawyer I would like for them to call. I asked him if he was threatening me and of course he said no. He said that it was going to be turned over to their lawyer, I said, Have at it bub, you know where I am and I'd be glad to have him give me a call soI can tell him the same thing.
Anyway, I have a question, I could be wrong about the second debit to my account, I only had one PDL that was $400 and of course it was to Geneva.
Anyway, it debited on 8/30 and the bank credited me back on 9/6. Then a second debit went through on 9/17 for $400 and a seperate debit (same company) for $30 (I'm figuring bank fee) but this time it says CHECK RECOVERY...anyone know about this company?

bflow, there's a bunch listed as Check Recovery on the BBB with different addresses. They are all listed as collection agencies. I don't know which one you're dealing with. Check out the BBB and you'll see what I mean. If maybe you could get a phone number, we could try that and see which one it is that's done this to you.

Well, I don't know which one I'm dealing with either. That's the thing. I haven't spoken with any of them to authorize any type of payment, so.

Good news is the bank gave me ALL of the money back yesterday but the BAD news is that I will probably have to deal with it again next week :x when they debit it again and I'M SURE THEY WILL.
I am going to contact them today about changing my account number. We'll see.

bflow, I am happy to see a little progress. I hate the one step forward, two steps back dance we do with these companies but it is goood news that the bank gave you all your money back. I really hope they will change your account number or do something to help you.

I haven't gotten a response yet but if not, we are changing our direct deposit to my husband's account that he has opened in his name.

[left:ab3d669a4a]geneva roth is a big joke they are taking 90 dollars out of my account every month and I dont know how or why please will someone help me with this pdloan company I need a phone number an or address.... :x :x :x :x :x [/left:ab3d669a4a]