PDL help in Alabama - FLORENCE

Lisa please post this under the "Pay Day Loan Help" section so it will be visible to everyone for reply. Just copy and paste what you have already written and give it a title like: Need Payday Loan Help in Alabama. I will post the laws for Alabama when I see your thread!

Looks like a Mod switched it over so I'm going to put my two cents in here.

First of all Loan Point, is funded by Geneva Roth, and them I've dealt with. I've received that "render decision" email often. Now once Frogpatch or someone puts up the laws for Alabama we can go into a few of those details.

But for now, thank goodness you've closed your account. Do you have any other PDLs debiting?

So they've taken out $270 right? Well what is the most likely case is that you don't owe them more than $30.

Actually I'll go check out the laws, and if no one has posted before I get back then I'll post them and we can get further into this....

Okay for some reason I can't post it because of the spam filter finds a product word in it........ Although there are none...

Okay well Loan Point broke the rules in that only one roll over is allowed in Alabama. And I checked the Licensee database and Loan Point nor Geneva Roth come up.

So they are illegal. First you need to send them a letter. You can click the do it yourself button at the top of this page, search sample letters in the search box or check out my blog to find a letter to write. You will be telling them you are revoking the authorization for automatic debiting of your account, revoking any wage assignment you may or may not have signed and that they are illegal and you only owe them the principal. (which if they've debited $90 3x, then you've paid 270 and only owe 30)

Here is the link at least for the Alabama state laws [www.paydayloaninfo.org/state_detail.cfm?id=AL] and from there are links to file a complaint. File that complaint about them, it will help get this settled. And help to get them stopped from doing any more harm!

You will find the Payday loan laws for Alabama here (just select your state),
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/paydayloan/explain-pdls-laws.html

Poko - It's the word "Spec ialist"

Another word, "cia lis" is contained in the middle of "spec ialist". That is the spam word it won't let go through . . . You just have to put a space in the middle and it will go through.

You know I kept looking through it trying to find out where it was hidden, I thought it was split between two words! just couldn't figure out which two... Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Well, Loan Point USA not only took 3 $90 payments from my checking account, but called me and told me I had to pay 4 payments of $150 to get my balance cleared. I've sent one payment this past Wednesday via Western Union, but I haven't felt right about it. They told me that each time they tried to get payment from my account and the funds werent there, they added that $90 extension fee to my loan bringing it to $900. I just wondered what would happen if I couldn't pay it?

Well, I sent loan point a payment of $150 via western I wondered if I should send them anymore. I didnt tell them to extend my loan six times that they kept adding $90 each time. Can they do anything to me legally?

First of all sorry I couldn't get back to you right away....

So you've now paid them 270 and 150 (equalling 420 paid for a 300 illegal loan) . I say that you have paid them enough. Here is where you stand up and take charge.

They are illegal and they can't do jack to you, although they will threaten to. First send them a standard letter. Search under sample letters, I've got one on my blog, and others have some as well. You will need to tell them you are revoking authorization for automatic debiting of your account and revoking any wage assignment you may or may not have signed. Even though they can't take any more out of your closed account, doesn't mean they won't stop trying, and it is nice to have some paperwork to back it up. Also in this letter state how much you have paid, reference the dates they took out money and the reference number on the western union you sent, and that by the state of Alabama your account is considered paid in full. Keep copies of this letter. Send it to them via mail, fax, and email. (when you fax, do it from a place like Kinko's and no place where they know you like your work).

Go and file complaints against them with the state authorities. The link is in the Alabama laws that Goudah posted. Don't forget the BBB and the FTC. Then sit back and wait, once they are contacted by the big guns, they will eventually agree to your letter and send you a PIF.....

And hopefully someone will come along and agree with me, I think that is how it happens..... And hopefully someone will have a good "I've paid you enough" letter....

Thank you so much for your help. I really had no idea about the legal issues behond these people. I appreciate all the information !!! It's amazing these people are still in business.

Well, you know I was looking under the laws section for Missouri which is where they are from and it stated that they were allowed 6 extensions I believe and only 1 in alabama. So does that mean if in their state they can extend to someone 6 times, but since I am from Alabama, they could only extend mine 1 time? Because they sent me an e-mail at one time with a checkoff on whether I would be paying off the loan or extending it and I read the fine print underneath which said something to the effect of if no response received by me they automatically extend the loan thru the next payday. Justwondering.

I believe they need to follow the laws of your state. The thing is that they are illegal and laws dont matter to them.
Lisa , i am concerned about one thing that i see.
It states for your states laws. that :criminal action is prohibited unless a ck. is returned for a closed account"
I did check with another member who has much knowledge regarding banking , and she was also concerned that an ach debit, can be looked upon as a ckeck. Please check with your bank to clarify this

Wait a minute. I have an issue here. Is this correct? When I read the laws and see criminal action prohibited unless check returned due to closed account, I am envisioning an actual CHECK being returned by the bank because the account was closed. Now, can someone verify if this is true? That an ACH debit can be considered a "check"? To me, and this is just me, these are two totally different things. One is a physical check that you wrote - the other is an ACH debit (which can be an unauthorized transaction). Now I'm not in the banking industry & I'm clueless about some things, but to me, it seems unfair that an ACH debit would be considered a "check" in some circumstances. ACH debits can be unauthorized transactions by an illegal company. A check is what you personally wrote with your own hand. Please someone verify this! Goudah? Someone? I'm way confused here.

Cannr, I think Volley should be along any minute to clarify.

One thing...The the PDL can put through a paper check, which is a distinct possibility.

This is a tough one...ACH transactions can originate as a check under the new Check 21 initiative. Also, ACH transaction can be converted to an e-check when sent to the bank.

Thanks for the claification Volley

I know that isnt a whole lot, and still a bit gray, but I am leery to post an "absolute" answer because of the unknown tactics by the pdls.

Okay. I understand what you're saying, volley. However, let me ask this. So if we see a state pdl law that says "criminal action prohibited unless check returned for closed account", it should not be advised to close their bank account for fear of this being the case? So their bank account would have to remain open?

Absolutely! I would not recommend closing the account! or having any instrument, check or ACH, returned due to closed account.

A savvy PDL could catch onto this law and try to nail you...

Thanks so much Volley. You really do deserve those stars you will be getting.
Boy this is grey area that could potentially be dangerous . It just goes to show that these IPDLs can really do so much harm

Huh. I am glad we have someone who knows "their stuff". I still totally disagree with this whole thing (but who am I? :wink: ). I mean an ACH debit can be an unauthorized transaction by an illegal company. Okay. I'm not going to try to understand the whole banking issue here. I'm just glad we got it clarified (thank you volley) so that no misinformation is given out. No one wants anyone to get into any "trouble" here! Thanks! :D

Well, I closed the account out because I was overdrawn. Then it was not too long after that, I received the e-mail about them trying to contact me regarding some decision . Should I try to go ahead with this letter?

Look at it this way Cannr...there is more of an inherent risk to issues when this law is present :wink:

Well, lisa closed her account. So it's closed. What is suggested?

Okay wait...were the items returned when the account was open and thats what withdrew the account?

If the account is closed and items have been returned Closed Account...not a whole lot you can do. Like I mentioned, if an illegal PDL wants to take thier chances and file prosecution according to law, they can knock themselves out.

I'm with cannr, I think that if you wrote the check after an account was closed knowing it was closed that is when they should prosecute you. Since this ACH debit was allowed before the closing of the account, and wasn't closed until 3 withdrawls...

But that is my opinion and I'm not sure what it has to do with the actual law. It could get tricky, if they send an e-check and all that jazz.

I say still send the letter and file the complaints and get those guys to be calling on your behalf and get your PIF before this check thing becomes an issue....

Oh yeah, and lisa closed her account before she even started the thread, she apparently had to. So not much we can do on that front....

Poko
It is really a grey area isn't it?
I have learned with these IPDLS to just use extreme caution in everything I do. They are just so underhanded that it is hard to second guess what they will do.
Am I being too paranoid?

No such thing as too paranoid... Maybe I'm just cynical?

poko-Yes, saw the account is already closed and i addressed that.

I was asked for my opinion because I work in the banking industry....as Kash mentioned there is a lot of gray areas with this and she is indeed correct.

My point is that if one pdl tries to put through a paper check or a transaction that originates as a check, it can applicable to the law as quoted.

An ILLEGAL pdl probably wouldnt want to raise attention to themselves by trying to prosecute. :shock:

This brings something to mind. How often have we heard that when you block ach debits, a PDL will try to get their money by putting thru a paper check.It has happened often.
Volley, I think your info is invaluable . Nothing is beneath these people

Exactly...and its okay to be paranoid,cynical, whatever! I would enoucourage that becase these people are bottomfeeders and will try any and all angles!!!

Hey, I'm back. Ok what happened was I became overdrawn in my checking account and so I decided that I was going to close out the account. I contacted the loan company and asked if I could make other payment arrangements for them to stop taking from my checking account and they said no that they would have to wait until my account was closed or charged off. Well, it took me a couple of weeks to get the account closed and so when I finally heard from them they told me over the phone that my balance had grown to 900 dollars and that they said if I would make 4 payments of 150 dollars they would have 300 dollars knocked off the balance. I asked how the balance grew from 300 to 900 they said each time(6) they tried to extend my loan and my account didnt have it they added 90 dollars to balance. That does not make sense. Before account was closed they had removed 90 dollars 3 times. I have since sent them 150 dollars via western union. I just wondered if they could do anything to me legally. I asked for them to send merecords of my loan and all they sent me was records showing when they tried to remove 90 dollars from my account. Should I go ahead and send them a letter?

Yes, send them a letter! Tell them thats it...they get no more of your $$. The law allows ONE rollover.

And I see they did take $$ before your account was closed...good, so now it shows that the account was closed due to overdraft and not an attempt to defraud.

lisa, let me just jump in here and ask you. You're NOT paying any more than the principle amount, correct? Forget this $900 nonsense. You're only agreeing to the principle amount, right? Not sending more than that, right?

No, I didn't want to have to. I just wanted to make sure they can't do anything to me legally.

They can not. They are acting illegally. Pay them what you legally owe, and say good bye to them

I asked the Arkansas banking dept about the ACH/Check issue a while back. They have the same thing about no criminal prosecution unless the account is closed.

This is what I was told:

It is possible. What you should do (and this wouldn't apply to the original poster since thier account is already closed) is when you go to the bank to close the account, you need to have proof of fraudulant activity going on. I was told that even just printing out some threads from this site about how pdl's debit accounts without authorization would be fine. These laws were not meant to keep accounts open that have fraud going on. They were meant to stop people from taking out loans and then closing the account to avoid repayment. So if you can prove the there was a valid reason to close the account, then you are safe.

Thank you, goudah! Now it makes more sense. I couldn't figure out why a person would be "forced" to keep an account open with illegal activity going on. Once again, clarification from the research queen! Thank you!!! :D

Was the poster here forced to keep an account open? She closed her account because it was overdrawn...

Did she close the account because it was overdrawn? Most banks won't let the customer close the account when it's overdrawn. But the bank will close it themselves if it's overdrawn for too long . . . . If the bank decides to close the account there isn't anything you can do.

NO! I didn't mean to imply that at all! Sorry for the confusion! :wink: I was just (in my mind) in awe that if someones state law stated criminal action prohibited unless check returned due to closed account and an ACH debit "might" be considered a "check transaction", that they couldn't close their account for fear of criminal action. That is what I meant when I said "forced to keep their account open". Sorry!

Cannr, This one has me nuts too. I wonder how a person CAN close their account if it is overdrawn. Usually the bank will keep it open until it is brought current . I think. I know from experience when I was overdrawn i had a certain amount of days to get it current, otherwise the bank would close it with 'Cause", and right on to chexsysem I would go.

I was going to close the account but the bank had already "charged off" the account and so it had been closed by the bank. I am currently working with the bank to get my balance paid off.

Hi grand. Can you post how much you borrowed, how much you paid back for each loan. Some of them are illegal PDL;s. It sounds like you live in Alabama but I wonder if since they put the money in a NJ account if that matters? Post the info and someone will be along to give you some help.

You should look at your bank statements. It should tell you who is taking the money. I am going to email one of the moderators to help you out with these. Hang in there.

Here are your Payday loan laws for Alabama (just select your state),
http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/paydayloan/explain-pdls-laws.html

The first thing to check is whether any of these are licensed in your state. That done...they are only allowed 1 rollover or one "fee" and then the balance of the loan. Please read the info about closing your bank account...this is really the only way to stop the debits. Once that is done and you have your money in your control again...you can send letters out to each pdl stating your laws and offering a payment plan on what you legally still owe them ..(or a paid in full in some cases)...Also once a PDL has your info it is possible for them to debit your account. Likewise some of them will put a loan in after turning you down or even if you have not completed to loan process. You will have to check your bank account very carefully to look for these errors. Many pdls also debit under a different name than the one you borrowed from. It does take time to sort it all out but it can be done. The laws you follow are those from where you reside. The bank issue has to be the first thing you do to get control again. Then post any other questions you have and we will be here for you.

grand, when contacting your attorney, please be sure to inform them that some of these companies that are debiting your account are not even licensed/legal to lend. That may make a difference on how the attorney handles those particular ones.

Please ensure your account is closed before you send the letters....if the PDL's catch wind that you are closing the account before it is closed, they will go in and clean it out.

Also, read the Important Topic posted at the top of this board about Closing Your Account.

Cashnet USA is licensed and legal in your state.