My Turn for Help Please

Well first of all I am going to post your state laws, you can actually check on these companies HERE.

Thanks for the reply.
The only two company I was able to find with that website were Check Into Cash. Does this mean that none of the others are legal in CA? What are the specific ramifications of operating illegally? I am only then responsible for the principal? What about overpayments? Is there any chance for a refund?
Thanks again

I also live in california and have some of the same pay day loans. Impact cash, loan point and CAN. I have done exactly the above and the only one that has been harrasing me still is loan point. They keep telling me that I have to abide by thier state laws, not the state of ca. Which I know now is not true. Hang in there and follow the directions of the help on this web site, and you will soon be free.

No Emails, but this is posted on the DFI's website:

WHO IS REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A LICENSE TO ENGAGE IN THE BUSINESS OF DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTIONS?

Any person that offers, originates or makes a deferred deposit transaction, arranges a deferred deposit for a deferred deposit originator, acts as an agent for a deferred deposit originator, or assists a deferred deposit originator in the origination of a deferred deposit is required to obtain a license from the Department of Corporations

I AM LOCATED IN CALIFORNIA PLANNING TO ENGAGE IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTIONS OVER THE INTERNET ONLY TO RESIDENTS IN OTHER STATES. AM I REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A LICENSE FROM THE DEPARTMENT.OF CORPORATIONS UNDER THE CALIFORNIA DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION LAW?

Yes.

I AM NOT LOCATED IN CALIFORNIA PLANNING TO ENGAGE IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTIONS OVER THE INTERNET TO RESIDENTS IN CALIFORNIA AND TO RESIDENTS IN OTHER STATES. AM I REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A LICENSE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF CORPORATIONS UNDER THE CALIFORNIA DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION LAW.

Yes.

ARE THERE LIMITATIONS ON A DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

Yes. The face amount of the customer's personal check or the electronic equivalent of the customer's personal check may not exceed $300 and the fee charged may not be more than 15% of the face amount of the check.

ARE THERE LIMITATIONS ON THE FEES THAT MAY BE CHARGED IN RELATION TO A DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

Yes. The fee may not exceed 15% of the face amount of the check. A single fee not to exceed $15 may be charged for a returned check. No additional fees may be added for late payments or returned checks.

ARE THERE LIMITATIONS ON THE NUMBER OF DEFERRED DEPOIST TRANSACTIONS A LICENSEE MAY MAKE TO A CUSTOMER IN A 12-MONTH PERIOD?

No. There are no limits on the number of deferred deposit transactions a licensee may make to a customer in a 12-month period. A licensee cannot make a new deferred deposit transaction during the period an earlier deferred deposit transaction is in effect for the same customer and the proceeds of a new deferred deposit transaction may not be used to pay off an existing deferred deposit transaction from the same licensee.

IS A LICENSEE ALLOWED TO MAKE A NEW DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION TO A CUSTOMER THAT HAS AN EARLIER DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION THAT IS IN EFFECT FROM ANOTHER LOCATION OF THE SAME LICENSEE.

No. Licensees with multiple locations cannot enter into a deferred deposit transaction with a customer during the period an earlier deferred deposit transaction is in effect for the same customer at any of the licensee's locations.

CAN A LICENSEE USE A CUSTOMER'S PERSONAL CHECK OR THE CUSTOMER'S ELECTRONIC EQUIVALENT OF A PERSONAL CHECK RECEIVED FROM A PREVIOUS DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION FOR A NEW DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

No. A licensee is not permitted to accept or use a customer's personal check or a customer's electronic equivalent of a personal check received from a previous deferred deposit transaction for a new deferred deposit transaction.

CAN A LICENSEE ACCEPT COLLATERAL IN CONJUNCTION WITH A DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

No.

IS A LICENSEE ALLOWED TO MAKE THE DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION CONTINGENT ON THE PURCHASE OF OTHER SERVICES OR PRODUCTS?

No.

ARE THERE ANY SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS FOR A LICENSEE THAT MAKES A DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION TO A NON-ENGLISH SPEAKING PERSON?

Yes. The written agreement must be written in the same language principally used in the oral discussions or negotiations leading to the execution of the deferred deposit agreement and must be in at least 10-point bold type.

IS A LICENSEE ALLOWED TO EXTEND THE DUE DATE OF AN OUTSTANDING DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION OR ALLOW THE CUSTOMER TO MAKE PAYMENTS ON AN OUTSTANDING DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

Yes, though the licensee is not required to extend the due date or enter into an agreement to allow the customer to make payments on an outstanding deferred deposit transaction.

WHAT ARE THE FEES A LICENSEE MAY CHARGE IN CONNECTION WITH EXTENSIONS AND PAYMENT PLANS GRANTED FOR REPAYMENT OF OUTSTANDING DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTIONS?

A licensee may allow an extension of time to repay an outstanding deferred deposit transaction or a payment plan, but may not charge any additional fees or charges of any kind in conjunction with the extension or payment plan.

IS A LICENSEE PERMITTED TO DEBIT A BORROWER'S BANK ACCOUNT ELECTRONICALLY USING ACH TRANSFERS ON MULTIPLE DAYS FOR VARYING AMOUNTS TO COLLECT A DELINQUENT ACCOUNT WITHOUT THE BORROWER'S AUTHORIZATION?

No. The agreement or an addendum to the agreement must specify the days and amounts the licensee is authorized to debit the borrower's bank account electronically using ACH transfers to collect delinquent accounts. Any addendums to the agreement authorizing the licensee to debit the borrower's bank account electronically to collect overdue accounts must be in writing signed by the borrower, by fax with the borrower's signature or electronically authorized by the borrower over the Internet. The written agreement should cover the manner in which a customer's check will be deposited and the specific date of deposit. For example, when the licensee elects to deposit a personal chck by electronic means, the written agreement should specify that the licensee electronically deposits the customer's check and the specific date. If the licensee wishes to deposit the check either manually or electronically when there are insufficient funds in the customer's account, the written agreement should also specify the method and date of depositing the check under those circumstances. The written agreement should cover the manner in which a customer's check will be deposited and the specific date of deposit. For example, when the licensee elects to deposit a personal check by electronic means, the written agreement should specify that the licensee electronically deposits the customer's check and the specific date. If the licensee wishes to deposit the check either manually or electronically when there are insufficient funds in the customer's account, the written agreement should also specify the method and date of depositing the check under those circumstances.

CAN A CUSTOMER BE CRIMINALLY PROSECUTED FOR FAILING TO REPAY A DEFERRED DEPOSIT TRANSACTION?

No. A customer cannot be criminally prosecuted or threatened with criminal prosecution to collect a delinquent deferred deposit transaction.

What Does this mean?

Internet based companies must be licensed by CA to lend legally.

Fees may not exceed 15% of the face value of the check.

No Rollovers are allowed.

Cash Net USA and Check into Cash are legal lenders. You will have to make arrangements to pay them off.

I realy appreciate all of the assistance. I wish I had found this site much sooner.

there has been really impressive, great advice on this particular thread. please keep us posted you shouldn't have too many problems and don't be scared to ask if you have further questions :)

I really apprecaite everything
Today I sent out all of the revocation/ C&D letters via email. I plan on faxing and snail mailing them also, is that necessary? I have closed by bank account and notified the payroll dept at work.
Is there anything I forgot?
I asked for refunds where I thought it was apropriate and took some liberties with Cash Transfer Centers. I have taken up several loans with them and paid them off successfully, only to find out that I was charged several hundred dollars in finance fees illegally. I currently have one outstanding loan with them, I told them in the letter of revocation that because the sum of the illegally assessed fees on previous loans is greater than the remaining balance on my outstanding loan, we should consider all debts PIF. I'll see what happens.
The only company that I couldn't find an email address (thanks search function)for was Summit Group LLC/BMG, anyone have an email for them, or should I just fax it?
THANKS SOOOOO MUCH

This is all I could find, I hope it works! I would only send emails, that's really all the documnentation you need, in my opinion, though some would probably beg to differ with me. :)

Summit Group LLC (AKA SSM Group)
1-866-463-2130
Fax: 1-866-463-9412

Got my first response from Impact Cash


"We are sorry to hear that you are not satisfied with the experience that you have had with Impact Cash. I have reviewed your account and with what has been paid we will consider the account settled and paid. We will no longer contact you regarding the account or try to collect on the balance. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Dan N.
Account Services
Impact Cash USA
1-800-707-0102 ext. 8005
Monday-Friday, 8-5pm (MST)
accountservices (@) impactpayments.com"

Should I press for the refund?
I have overpaid them by $435 according to my state laws

it couldn't hurt to press, don't expect much but what the heck

I responded to the email above saying that they have broken the law, I have contacted my attorney general, etc. I informed them of CA laws and how it was illegal to charge a rollover fee this is their response:


"According to the fees allowed in the state of California with the interest rate allowed at 459%, finance rate and fees at 15%, and a finance charge of $17.65 per $100.00. The amount that could be charged in California is $494.00 in interest, a $52.95 finance charge, and $45.00 in fees, which makes the total amount $591.95. The difference is, is that the "rollover" charge that you are referring to is the interest, finance charge and fees that are charged for the loan that you have with us. I am willing to settle with you on the account with what has been paid and close your account. Please respond as soon as possible."

That doesn't seem accurate. Any of the experts have advice as to how to respond?

She is seperating them out like they are 3 different things.

The 15% of check value is the same as 459% apr and the same as $17.65 per $100.

The CORRECT was that math is done is as follows:

300 / .85 = 352.95

The fee would be $52.95.

That is all they are allowed to charge. They don't get to do an apr of 459%, plus 15% of the check, plus $17.65 per $100!

Also, they must REMEMBER that the max loan term is 31 days. They seem to think they can charge a whole year's worth of interest on a loan that can only last for 31 days.

The key is that there are only two companies that are allowed to do pay day lending in your home state. The others are illegal, therefore you only have to pay the orginial amount borrowed.

I also live in California and can tell you that Cash Transfer Centers is highly illegal here. They are part of the Sonic family of companies which has been banned from doing business in the state--so I am frankly surprised that they loaned to you. They will also try a voluntary wage garnishment faster than a New York minute, so it's imperative to get to your payroll person to revoke this in writing--because I promise you, they will try it.
They will try and play hardball, but don't back down. Tell them that you will be complaining to the Dept of Corporations if they don't go away and if they don't, then do it.

Thanks everyone

The latest updates.

Cash Transfer Centers
They have been calling me non-stop. Everything on my end is in order (closed account, revocation letters, C&D). I finnaly spoke with "Mr. Bruce" today. I essentially told him the same thing that I said in the revocation letter. He typically saying that the company is legal and that I will be held responsible.
I guess that this case is slightly atypical because I took out several loans with this company and paid them back including the illegal finance and other fees. I have informed them that I will not be paying on this last loan because the "outstanding balance" is about half of what I have paid them in illegal fees. What should I do now? Will they just continue to call? Their wage assignment is probably not going to work so what else can they do?

Impact Cash USA
I've posted some of the other letters that I got from them above. They agreed to mark my account PIF and now I am trying to get a refund. I took out a loan for $300 and have paid over $700 on it. You can see how they replied above. Here is the latest email I got from them.

The charges that I outlined for you in my last email are the allowable fees in the state of Calfornia, not the fees that we are charging you. The email that you sent is correct and have all of the rates and fees outlined. The "apr" on the state law outline that is marked 459% is the interest rate. APR stands for "annual percentage rate".
I have copied below the law outline that you sent me in the first email. The "finance rate and fees" are different from an "APR" or from a "finance charge", that is why they are listed separately in the law outline. Please review the outline below and respond.

Loan Terms:
Maximum Loan Amount: $300
Loan Term: Max: 31 days
Maximum Finance Rate and Fees: 15% of check
Finance Charge for 14-day $100 loan: $17.65
APR for 14-day $100 loan: 459%

Thank you,

Dan N.
Account Services
Impact Cash USA
1-800-707-0102 ext. 8005
Monday-Friday, 8-5pm (MST)
[email]accountservices@impactpayments.com[/email]

I don't quite understand how the argument that he is making applies. But they are still not licensed in my state and therefore I am only responsible for the principal, right?

bump. help please.
thanks

Latest from Impact Cash
I understand the information that you sent in your previous email I find it strange that they would list 3 different types of fees and state that they are all the same fee. I have been in the banking and financial industry for a long time and every loan that I have ever worked on whether it be with a bank or with this company when fees are listed separately they are exactly that, separate fees. I do not believe though that discussing the semantics of the fees is really moving forward to resolve the issue. I am willing to refund you the amount of $200.00, considering that the loan has been open for over 4 months I believe this is more than a reasonable settlement offer.


Thank you,

Dan N.
Account Services
Impact Cash USA
1-800-707-0102 ext. 8005
Monday-Friday, 8-5pm (MST)
[email]accountservices@impactpayments.com[/email]