Plain Green - Letter and Response
Date: Wed, 05/08/2013 - 13:49
Been lurking for a couple of weeks since I realized I was in over my head. Just one illegal PDL (others are legal and allowed epp) stood between me and getting out of this once and for all. I sent this letter, modified from the great example on these forums, with some snippets of state law, and got a response within 6 hours. Basically, I went with their assertion that I was covered under their law when I never set foot on the reservation, but explained to them why that didn't really matter. Plain Green seems to cave to these pretty easy, but might be helpful for other lenders who are more reticent... They still want more per month than I am willing to give, but I'm going to respond and basically tell them to take or leave my offer...
Anyway, here it is......
My letter to Plain Green:
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May 8, 2013
Plain Green Loans
Attn: Customer Support
93 Mack Road, Suite 600
PO Box 270
Box Elder, MT 59521
Loan ID: XXXXXXXX
Customer Name: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Customer ID: XXX-XX-XXXX
To Whom It May Concern:
Effective immediately, I am notifying you that I REJECT ARBITRATION as provided in your contract.
It has come to my attention that ALL consumer lenders must be licensed by the State of California Department of Finance in order to offer loans to California residents. Since your company has no license in my state, the loan contract I have with you is not valid.
I am hereby revoking authorization for ACH withdrawals from any bank account opened in my name in the past, present, or future, and any wage assignment I may have signed. Furthermore, I am revoking any authorization for any remotely created check or “demand draft” created to draw funds from any bank account opened in my name in the past, present, or future. My checking account ending in XXXX has been closed. Any future attempts to collect funds in this manner will be blocked and will be reported to the relevant authorities as bank fraud/check fraud/forgery.
My bank and my employer have been provided copies of this notice.
Additionally, I am requesting that all further communication regarding this transaction be only via email or U.S. postal mail at the addresses in your records. In order to maintain an accurate record, I will not communicate with you via phone other than to request you put all communications in writing.
Although I am not required to do so, I am willing to repay the principal balance of this loan as a gesture of good faith.
To date, I have received a deposit of $1000 on April 22, 2013, and one ACH payment of $126.36 has been debited from my account. This leaves an outstanding principal balance of $873.64, which I am willing to pay ONLY via money order as follows:
· -10 equal monthly payments of $80 each on or before 5/31/13, 6/30/13, 7/31/13, 8/31/13, 9/30/13, 10/31/13, 11/30/13, 12/31/13, 1/31/14, 2/28/14, and 3/31/14.
· -1 final lump-sum payment of $73.64 on or before 4/30/14.
I am aware that your company is supposedly a tribal entity, and claim to be covered by tribal sovereignty. However, you should know that an attempt to collect any monies from me on this usurious contract, other than on my terms as outlined above, will be in vain. While you may prevail in obtaining a judgment against me in a tribal court, any such judgment would necessarily need to be recognized by the State of California before any bank or wage garnishment could be effected.
Because tribal court judgments are not afforded Full Faith and Credit under the U.S. Constitution, recognition of such judgments is afforded only under the laws of the State, via the legal principle of comity. California has codified the conditions under which such judgments will be recognized in the California Code of Regulations Title 11, Chapter 2 – otherwise known as the Uniform Foreign-Country Money Judgments Act (UFCMJA) [which explicitly applies to tribal judgments per §1714(b)].
I have spoken with the offices of California Attorney General Kamala Harris and San Diego County District Attorney Bonnie Dumais. They have both assured me that any petition for recognition of a tribal court judgment related to this contract would be rejected on the basis of §1716(c)(3) of the UFCMJA and this contract’s nonconformance to the California Finance Lenders Law.
At this time, I am requesting a return email acknowledging your acceptance of my terms.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXX
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Plain Green Response, less than 6 hours later:
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Please be advised that this communication is for the purpose of collecting a debt. Any information obtained may be used to collect the debt. We may report information about your account to credit bureaus. Late payments, missed payments, or other defaults on your account may be reflected in your credit report.
Dear Xxxxxx,
Your correspondence has been directed to me for review and I thank you for the opportunity to assist you at this time.
We understand that all situations are different and would like to offer you the opportunity to pay the remaining principal on your current loan in the amount of $873.64. We are willing to settle your account for this amount, payable in eight (8) monthly installment(s) in the amount of $109.20 each, payable beginning May 31, 2013 and monthly thereafter.
To further clarity your questions regarding the legality of this loan, Plain Green is organized under the laws of the Chippewa-Cree Tribe of the Rocky Boy’s Indian Reservation of Montana (“Chippewa-Cree”). Plain Green is owned by the Chippewa-Cree, and operates exclusively on land owned by the Chippewa-Cree. As such, Plain Green stands as an “Arm of the Tribe,” in the view of the United States state and federal courts. Therefore, loans made by an arm of a sovereign Indian nation are not subject to state law. This is NOT a payday loan.
This letter is written to help you understand that Plain Green and its loan contracts are governed exclusively by the laws of the Chippewa-Cree.
Pursuant to your request, we have removed your contact numbers from our system and we will make no further ACH debits from your account.
Please reply if you would like to accept this settlement and set up payment arrangements.
Plain Green Loans
Plain Green Loans Account Services
accountservices@plaingreenloans.com
866-420-7158
877-848-8704 FAX
8 a.m. - 10 p.m. ET, Monday - Friday
9 a.m. - 5 p.m. ET, Saturday
Plain Green Loans
Account Services
93 Mack Road, Suite 600
PO Box 270
Box Elder, MT 59521
And remember you are in
And remember you are in control not them - so if your payment plan works better for you than the one they offered - make them agree to yours in writing before you send anything at all..
Keep us posted and welcome to
Keep us posted and welcome to the forums. Are your legal ones all working out okay for you?
Really it doesnt matter what
Really it doesnt matter what they agree to...legally you owe them nothing....
True, we only suggest morally
True, we only suggest morally repaying the principal, so if they never agree to what you are willing to do they get nothing at all...
That's why I told them "take
That's why I told them "take it or leave it." And yes, the legals are working out for me with the EPPs - CheckMate, Check'N'Go, Advance America, and Money Tree. It's amazing that this all started with ONE $255 loan.
Actually, that's not true. It started when I had just started a new job and my 20-year-old POS car decided to die - can't work without transportation in SoCal. I'd been underemployed for 6 months, my credit was trashed and my savings were gone, thanks to my wonderful ex husband who decided unilaterally that he didn't actually HAVE to get a job - that is for lesser mortals.
Got the CashCall loan, decided "that's cool, I need to rebuild credit anyway, I can pay this off in a few months no problem, I'm making good money now." But then even after the expensive repairs the car died again and there was no resurrecting it, so then add a car payment to the mix, then a night in the ER 3 days before my medical insurance kicked in ($8K for 8 hours - and that's with a cash pay discount. Unfortunately I make too much money at my new job to qualify for any other aid.) so then medical bills, and next thing you know I'm up ****-creek without a paddle. I swear, it sounds like a bad Lifetime movie.......
I do still have the CashCall that I'm paying on the "normal" schedule - from what I read they're notoriously hard to deal with, even if I've never been late. I've already paid principal + 40% interest, but I figure once I get the legal PDLs taken care of, I'll have extra cash going towards paying that down and maybe negotiating with them. They report to the credit bureaus, so I want to keep that clean - at least get some benefit from it from the on-time payment history.
Did your loan with them
Did your loan with them originate with them or with Western Sky - if Western Sky also tribal and illegal..
Unfortunately originated with
Unfortunately originated with Cash Call, and they are licensed in CA, so no help there. :(
And no, my bank was great.
Can I ask what you gave to
Can I ask what you gave to the bank for this? I'm planning on heading to my bank tomorrow (Chase) and I have the letter that I wrote and will be sending to PG, but I want to make sure I take care of the bank issue correctly! Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Tell them your account was
Tell them your account was compromised due to fraud - you are revoking ACH authorization - you have a copy and you want your account put on hard block if need be - you will want to close your account and open a new one in no way linked to the old account - here is the link to follow the steps on how to deal with these lenders. http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/paydayloan/dealingwith-illegallenders.html
Went to the bank and closed
Went to the bank and closed my account, told them that my account was being compromised by a payday lender. They put a restrictive hold on my account until all the pending transactions clear and then will close. Opened a new account and made it very clear that the old account was in no way to be linked with new account. Old account should be closed by Monday, at which time I will send letter to illegal lenders revoking their ACH permission. Was pleasantly surprised that bank was so easy to deal with. I was afraid that they would make me close account without opening new one.
My bank was easy to work with
My bank was easy to work with also.. who do you bank with? Keep us posted on progress - just follow the link and all should go smoothly..
Who are your lenders? how much borrowed? and how much paid to date?
I had/have 3 illegal. Plain
I had/have 3 illegal. Plain green, Great Plains and Iggy Loans.
PG = $1900 total borrowed, $1761 paid back
GP = $1800 total borrowed, $ 972 paid back
Iggy = $900 total borrowed, $1342 paid back
I've sent offers to all, with promise to pay GP & PG monthly installments, and have requested a refund from Iggy.
I'll keep you posted on progress! Thanks for this board, it's been a godsend!