We Say Pay Back What you Borrow

Thank you for a wonderful post Frog. In fact we do advocate paying back the legal amount.I also do not want anyone to get the wrong idea , and think that these loans are a quick fix and that they need not be paid back. I do not want the reputation of this forum to be darkened by people thinking that we tell people not to return what was taken.

Exactly!

People that do this sort of thing only hurt things. When you don't pay back what you borrow, you give these companies ammunition. They can then say that they have to charge the high fees because it's so risky and no one pays them back.

Plus, people need to realize that things are not set in stone. It is possible to be sued, and get a bad judge, and the payday lender wins. It is not black and white. All laws are up for interpretation. Payday lenders have legal counsel. They would not be lending at the levels they are if they did not think they could get away with it. They have jusitifications and case precendents on their side too.

Also, because the transaction is off the internet, and it's from another state, there are many considerations to take. While most state's want to say they control the transaction, it's not set in stone. Frankly, there is case law supporting both sides.

Being taken to court is in no way an easy win. They would not be suing you if they did not have some high powered attorney advising them to do so.

Oh so right!!! We have all learned here the hard way of what can happen with these payday lenders. Especially the internet ones. I have never heard any of us state they you can just skip and not pay at all!! As a matter of fact...even though many of the ipdls were illegal in my state I made a point of paying back not only what I borrowed but the "allowed" interest by my state. Whether you do that or not...you DO still owe what you borrowed.

Good post Frog. I agree 100%!!

Why would anyone pay a bill without the proper documentation that you legally owed this debt. I for one would not and always request verification of that debt. Just received verification/validation the other day and have no problems paying it back.

ladybug

I am not talking about some old debt that some collection agent dragged out of the trash. I mean a loan that was borrowed and the amount borrowed is not in question. I would not pay a bill just because someone says I owe it. I got a call from a CA the other day saying I had a 600.00 bill from netcash. I checked mty records and I borrowed 300,00 and paid them at least 270.00. I my state that means I owe possibly 30.00 plus interest on the original amount. But not to the CA. They will have to validate that and of course they won't be case they have no record of payment and the lender is not licensed anywhere that I am aware of. They won't even mail me a statement.

Besides, requesting validation is not always the way to go when dealing with a CA. Some CA's will immediatly sue you just for the request. It really is best to do your research before you do anything.

I do agree you should pay back what u borrow but here is my question, do you have a obligation to pay if a illegel Internet PDL continued to attack your checking account causing it to go negitive after repeated letters demanding they stop? I had 2 incidents where two refused to stop hitting my closed account which forced it open again causing OD fees and withdrawal fees and still they demanded money afterwards. In my opinion I see no value in throwing good money after bad to these PDL's.

It's really a personal choice. I understand where you are coming from on it, but personally I wouldn't be able to consider that payment to them. It doesn't really change anything on their side, and still goes down on their paperwork as not paying. That paperwork gets compliled into a report, gets sent to whatever group is lobbying for them, and it's used as proof that these loans are high risk and therefore much be high interest.

I would fight the bank to return the fees. It is possible. You just have to be persistent and contact the right people. If you legally revoked authorization for these companies to debit your account, then these transactions that caused the fees are fraudulant. The bank should reverse the OD charges. File a complaint with the OCC if it's a national bank. They can help sometimes.

Well I managed to get some fees taken off but others they flat refuse to remove so I feel since they continued to debt this account after repeated attempts to revoke that right then they crossed over the legal line first as I tried to make arrangements but they refused as they demanded all or nothing. I'm not saying 2 wrongs make a right but since they will not play by the rules as I have to I feel in my opinion I have met my obligation regardless if they get the money or the bank does, as much as I dislike banks in general I like the PDL folks even less.

BTW I resolved all the outstanding PDLs except these two which will not bargin. I did find since the whole Storefront PDL business in Arkansas is being challenged in the Arkansas Supreme Count they were very willing to workout easy repayment plans well beyond the 4 they list. So hopefully they will be outlawed totally by next year.

I totally understand where you are coming from on this one . . . . But I would continue to fight the bank. Filing a complaint with the OCC (Office of the Comptroller of Currency) can really help things.

What about the ones that won't except payment on the principle? I'm confused now because I've read so much on this board and everyone says you can't get criminal charges and then you posted about possiblr federal implications. If these companies are ILLEGAL and are not willing to accept payments on the principle, what can you do?

Federal Implications on an illegal pay day loan?????

Yeah I believe that's what frog wrote too..Let me re-read as well.

Just saw it. Dont understand it, but I saw it!!!!

I believe what Frog meant was if the company has reason to believe you took out the loan without any intent on paying it back, there exists the possibility for charges. That is one reason why it's always a good idea to pay back principle. You can't be accused of fraud if you pay them back.

Kash - Thing is it is not 100% clear that these companies are illegal. It is not so black and white. There is wiggle room for both sides. These companies do have legal counsel, and their legal counsel finds laws that justify what they are doing and back up their position. Just as we do.

Thanks Goudah. I always love to assume that these places are illegal. I suppose it is wishful thinking. I just want to see these places vanish.

My question is, if they have no license to lend money, how can they be legal?

Almost every place has a license from somewhere . . . . Or they are overseas, and out of US jurisdiction. They may have lending authority from the country they are located in, or may not even need it, depending on the laws there.

Internet commerce is a new thing. The laws haven't completly caught up to it. The process of lending over the internet has not been totally thought out by some states, and there are no federal laws pertaining to it. So it leaves wiggle room for these places to claim that they can choose their jurisdiction, and that you are coming to them, therefore their laws apply.

I agree, pay back what you owe and be done with pdl's, FOR GOOD. I will NEVER ever get caught in the pdl trap again, I survived when they didn't exist, and I will survive now, withOUT them.

Shazzers, I ditto that comment. Never again will I even entertain the idea.

well if they violate laws to give u the loan aka high rates, over what your state allows like past 31 days over the max amount, rollovers, they violate all these laws then there contract is viod thats why u never get a email with your contract when u ask cause its illegal there sharks they prey on us hoping that most are dumb and wont see it coming like i did i got 2 pdl's and paid back what i owed and now they just want more and more its total bs why should i be fair with them in the begging if in the end they arnt

No, the contract is not void just because there are illegal clauses. It would all depend on your state's contract law. It's a very dense and complicated set of laws. It's not black and white. Some state's will only void the illegal clauses, and uphold the rest of the contract.

And yes, it is possible to get a copy of your contract. You are able to print it out and save it when you apply. They are not hiding it from you.

I agree it's total BS, but you want to sink to their level? That makes you just as bad as them . . . . The point is to rise above and do the right thing. Keep your nose clean. Don't make it look like they are right about anything they say.

I was rereading this thread and I find it difficult to beleive that an illegel PDL could sue in state court and it would be hard to prove Federal interstate fraud charges unless gross misconduct could be proved but if you attempted to stop the ACH charges with lettersfaxes and couldn't then there case wouldn't hold water, least from what I have determined. Plus the cost of battling it out in State court or Federal court for $390 bucks is not cost effective.....from business standpoint.

Anyone can sue anyone. That doesn't mean they would win. You pay the filing fee and that's it. You've sued someone.

Yes, it would be hard to prove Federal Fraud charges. The point is that they could try, and it would be a headache to clear up.

With anything the pdl could try against someone, there is a strong chance that the consumer would win. The problem is fighting it, and all the expense and headaches that would cause. It's just an intimidation thing. They use it to scare you into paying.

God has been sued, so it is entirely possible for anyone to sue anyone. The quesion is more can they win.

What will be interesting is if the predictions of a bad recession beginning due to the credit crunch how these PDL folks are going to deal with enmass loan defaults when many of their clients are out of work...I beleive we may see a portion of them go out of business which would be a good thing indeed.

That would be a wonderful thing. :D Although they would probably just start back up when the economy turns up again . . .

What is troubling is as the banks and PDL lenders are partnered up and the consumer gets wacked on both ends from bounceACH fees and outrageous loan fees....if everyone just stopped borrowingpaying might send a wakeup call....

Quite a few banks used to be partnered with the pdl's . . . . The Fed took care of most of that, but there are still many banks that have their hands in payday lending businesses.

Once again another guest is here looking to weasel their way out of paying what is owed and looking for support from us. This person thinks that he or she can ignore debts for years until they are no longer collectable. That is not going to happen. Thanks to those who responded by saying pay what you owe.

Thanks for the post Frog. I do not like people thinking that we advocate NOT paying. If anything, we are all about paying our bills, in a honest reasonable manner.

I must agree you must pay back what you have borrowed!
After all wasn't it us in the first place that went
shopping for a loan take responsibility for what you
have borrowed.

I must agree I was in search of help and understand what the right way to handle these PDL's illegal or Not when I found this site. I have been advised several differant ways to get control of my finances but never once would have I thought that I wasn't responsible for atleast the amount borrowed. My biggest concern was getting control of my paycheck and decided then who and how I wanted to pay at that time verses the PDL companies taking all of my paycheck plus some of my husbands in just fees. Fees of which I have come to learn to be illegal. Thanks for the lending ear and all the advise that this site has given.

Guest:
I would get an address from these companies if you can and certainly send them a money order (not a check) for the principal. Even though they may tell you they won't accept payment on it, it's a fair bet that they will cash it. And if they cash at least one payment, then yes, they do accept payments.

I don't have or haven't had a problem paying back what I borrowed, however I can't get them to accept an offer for what I borrowed plus the interest allowable by my state. Instead they want double or even triple what we borrowed. In that case I'm not sending them a dime!!

It is true that many of them will make it impossible to settle because of their rules! In that case there is not much you can do without getting robbed.

so in that case you do still have to pay them back correct even if they will not settle correct?

I had 10 of them and all of them were more than happy to either refund me or settle. However, the ones that would not are asking 2 and 3 times more than what I borrowed. I wanted to pay them back, but not for that much especially when I have paid them some on those loans.