Payday loans in PA

Angela,

Internet based payday lending became illegal in PA as of February 2009. The Dept of Banking had previously allowed internet-based lenders to make loans to PA residents if they were licensed in another state, but in July 2008 the Dept reversed their position and decided that as of 2/2009 the lenders had to be licensed with the PA Dept of Banking and follow PA's laws regarding interest rates. A PDL sued the Dept and lost. Then they appealed and the appeal is still pending in the PA Supreme Court. Most of the "legitimate" payday lenders (if there is such a thing) stopped issuing loans to PA residents once the orginal lawsuit was lost.

Here is what I suggest you do...

FIrst, secure your bank account so that the PDLs can't debit them. Talk to your bank. You absolutely have the right to stop the withdrawals but some commercial banks may not be cooperative. Credit unions are easier to work with. You may need to close your account and open a new one (there's lots of advice on this site about how to do that properly).

Then - and only then - send each PDL a certified letter (if you have an address) or an email similar to this:
[COLOR=#333333]________________________________________________________________________[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]August 18, 2009 Your Name[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]Your Address[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]Yourtown PA 18000[/COLOR]



500 Fast Cash
515 GSE
[COLOR=#333333]Miami OK 74354[/COLOR]



[COLOR=#333333]After doing research on Internet payday loan laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, I have found that your internet payday loans are actually illegal. As of February 1, 2009 your company actually should not issue loans to PA residents since you are not licensed. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]Accordingly I require that you provide me with a detailed accounting of all loans made by you to me since February 1 2009, along with a statement of how much was paid by me to you on each loan. If I fail to receive this information from you I will proceed to file complaints against your company with the Pennsylvania Dept of Banking and the PA Attorney General???s office.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]I hereby revoke any and all direct debit authorizations I have made to you.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]I demand that any contact be made through US Mail or email only. I will need all communications between us in writing.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]I prohibit you or your affiliates to contact me via telephone at my place of employment or at my home or cellular telephone numbers. Persuant to the PA Fair Credit Extension Uniformity Act, you are hereby notified that my employer does not permit contact of this type. I also prohibit you from contacting any references listed on my loan documents.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]You are also hereby notified that I am revoking any voluntary wage assignments I may or may not have signed. I no longer authorize you, your company, or your affiliates to attach any part of my wages or contact my employer for collection purposes.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]I expect a response from your company no later than September 15, 2009 regarding this matter. This response may only come via US Mail or email. No telephone contact is permitted.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]Sincerely,[/COLOR]



[COLOR=#333333]Your Name[/COLOR]


[COLOR=#333333]CERTIFIED MAIL 7006 0810 0001 1235 1234[/COLOR]
_________________________________________________________________________

Once they receive the letter, expect to hear all sorts of nonsense from them about how they only have to follow the laws in the state they are in. Its all BS, ignore it and stick to your guns. If they don't provide you with a statement of your account, don't send them anything. If they do send it, follow up with a letter that offers to repay your remaining principal under reasonable terms you can live with. Tell them you will not send any payments until you agree to terms with them in writing. If you agree on a settlement, pay them via money order only - no credit cards, no debit cards, no checks and no Western Union. Stick to your guns, don't let them intimidate you. Give them one chance to respond to your letter, then file complaints with the PA Banking Dept (which will probably be useless), the PA Attorney General and the Attorney General of the state where the lender is. If they send a collection agency after you (or pretend to be one themselves) send the CA a DV and a Cease and Desist letter and include in the letter that they are attempting to collect on an illegal loan. If they contact you again after that, complain to the FTC and the Attorneys General. You can also then sue the CA for FDCPA violations.

I followed these steps and here are my results. I had several PDLs running:

- Some of them argued with me for a while and then gave up. They never got another dime.
- Not one PDL ever sent me the accounting I asked for.
- In a couple of cases I had to follow up with stronger letters to get them to stop bothering me.
- I got letters from 2 CAs. Both of them went away after I sent the C&D letter.
- Nothing has been reported to any Credit Bureau.
- They called for a while but I usually did not answer and they all stopped.
- Two were slightly aggressive, in both cases the OK AG's office (where the lender is located) intervened. One PDL issued a PIF and the other one went away.

I was 100% willing to pay back the principal I still owed (in the majority of cases, I had already payed fees and principal close to what I had borrowed), but since none of the lenders actually tried to work with me, none of them got anything. Several of them simply gave up after the first letter, a few more after the second letter, and the rest after either the AG got involved or I threatened to complain.

One company was stupid enough to have their "legal" department (nonsense) call me and leave a flagrantly abusive message on my voice mail. That earned them an FTC complaint and an immediate email. The next day they apologized and cancelled my account.

You need to be able to ignore their BS, don't talk to them on the phone (either don't answer or hang up on them...do not engage them in discussion on the phone). The law is on your side and the PDLs know it.

Good luck, let me know if you need any advice.

CLICK HERE to find out how to deal with illegal lenders.

Thank you both so much!

I went over my bank account records since December and found the following for the two PDLs I have out. Do any of you think I have the right to ASK for a refund instead of offering to pay the remaining principal? See below
National Cash Lenders Loan
12/8/09 - $1000 deposit
12/15/09 - $200 payment
12/31 - $200 payment
1/15/10 - $200 payment
2/1/10 - $1200 payment
2/12/10 - $1000 deposit
3/1/10 - $225 payment
3/15/10 - $225 payment
Total borrowed: $2000
Total paid back: $2250

PayDay Max
12/16/10 - $920 deposit
1/15/10 - $339.49 payment
1/29/10 - $171.30 payment
2/12/10 - $1091.30 payment
2/16/10 - $950 deposit
2/16/10 - $200 payment
3/15/10 - $225 payment
Total borrowed: $1870.00
Total paid back: $2027.09

Of course, this encompasses two loans through each lender, but I feel like since they are illegal in my state, they shouldn't have been lending to me at all and I shouldn't have paid them a dime of interest. What would you all do??? :confused:
thanks again!

Oh, and I've opened a new checking account and plan to close this one this week once all of my debits have cleared.

You don't owe them anything more. In fact in addition to the steps I suggested in my previous message, I'd point out to them that they owe you a refund of the excess you paid. I doubt you'd get that unless you sued them, but it will add another dimension to your complaints.

After reviewing my account all the way back to February of 2009 (which is when the new law in PA took effect) I see that I would be owed a HUGE refund of fees from both of these PDL companies. (as well as a couple others) It makes me sick that having a financial crisis once can snowball into such hardship.

So, I'm "demanding" the amount of fees that I'm entitled to in my letters, but know I'll probably never get it. but it never hurts to put it in the letter, right?

Has anyone ever successfully gotten a refund from a PDL? I would think they'd want your account # to deposit it (ha-ha!) Specifically, has anyone ever heard of getting a refund from National Cash Lenders or Payday Max?

I would DEMAND refunds, and harass the crap out of them until you get something!

I sent a letter to National Cash Lenders this morning and received this response:
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]Dear :[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=navy]As stated in your loan document, the loan was made in the state of Delaware . It also states that it is your responsibility to check with your state to determine if you can legally accept a loan in compliance with your state laws. The loan agreement that you signed, indicates that you accept and agree to your state???s and our jurisdiction laws. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]In reference to your account, we will close your account and make it inactive. This will disallow your use of our company from this date forward. In doing this, we will also send you documentation confirming that your account has been marked ??? Paid in Full. If you should have any further questions, please contact [EMAIL="customerservice@nationalcashlenders.com"]customerservice@nationalcashlenders.com[/EMAIL] or call toll free Monday ??? Friday 9:30am ??? 5:30pm EST to speak with a representative.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]Sincerely,[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]Collections Department[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]National Cash Lenders[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]877-369-0505[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]I did write this back:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]Thank you for your email. I will be glad to recieve the documentation indication my account in Paid In Full. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=navy]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=navy]However due to the state laws of Pennsylvania all fees that you charged were illegal. [COLOR=black]The legal amount that could have been charged to my loan is the principal amount, even IF your Internet pay day loan were legal anywhere in the U.S. I have paid more than the principal amount on loans from you this year and in the past. I am demanding a refund in the amount of $910.00 sent to me. This encompasses $3400 in loans with repayments of $4310.00 since the inception of the new law in February of 2009. [/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=navy]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=black]Thank you, [/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=black]xxxx[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][COLOR=black]I'll let you know how that turns out...Now to wait to hear from the other two![/COLOR][/SIZE]


[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

Well, I got a call this afternoon from Adrian Berry the president of National Cash Lenders.
He wasn't too argumentative though he professed to know more about the PA laws then he really does I think. He cried a sad story about how if he refunded me the full $910 they wouldn't be making any money and blah blah blah. Basically, I knew I wouldn't get the full amount no matter what I tried. I agreed to half. I had to call back though to see if it could be Western Unioned to me since I forgot to reitterate the fact that I was closing my account. Waiting to hear back on this.

So, to everyone who wants to try for a refund...go for it!

That is fantastic! I've not dealt with this particular PDL, but getting any refund is a great victory. He probably knew the laws better than he let on, or he probably wouldn't have offered any refund at all!

Way to go!

I got my refund of $440 (I paid half of the WU fee) and am done with NCL now. I'm battling it out with PDM and Discount Advances (both Credit Protection Depot.) Though CPD seems to only be trying to collect for PDM. I've also submitted letters to Cashnet USA and National Payday to try to get refunds from previous loans I overpaid on. (fingers crossed and a prayer to God)

So if I am in PA, it doesn't matter where the payday loan lenders are located, they are all illegal?

Quote:

what can I do then if I have these PDL's? do I just tell them that they are illlegal and I am not paying them anymroe?

Quote:

CAsh jar 500 loan, paid 837.50
First bank of DE 550, paid 85.93
Everest 330, paid 135
Sagamore 300, paid 270
JVC 300, paid none
Zip19 500, paid none (althought had previous ones I paid in full)
Cash Express direct 440, paid 106

Quote:

I can't find the template of the letter I am supposed to use, can you help. I looked in the other thread, but can't find the link

I have only heard from 2 of the 7 pdl's since I closed my account a month ago. One sent me to collection agency. Should I worry about the ones that have not contacted me at all? I don't want to rock the boat, but I am worried they will come after me later. Should I request a refund from cash jar?

A month isn't that long...I suspect you'll hear from some of the others. I'm not familiar with any of them so I can't offer any advice from experience, but I think you should try for a refund from the ones that owe you money. I think its a rare win, but others here have succeeded.

Quote:

Alliance Asset management inc in IL is the collection agency and Cash Express Direct is lender

I would definitely PUSH for a refund.

I'm still fighting with CPD. I called them again on Friday. They said I'd receive a call back from Management that day. I never got a call. So...I called again today and was told they are reviewing the account to see if they could issue any refund. They would "note the account" so that when I call I can be informed by the CSR who answers. I've been through this before. When this all started in April they pulled this in May. Both accounts were considered PIF, but I want my refund. Even if I have to fight for a year, I'm going to be annoying to them to say the least!