Payday Yes

What did you say in your letter the first time besides the communication part?

I sent the following letter of which I found a template for in another CA pdl thread:

April 3rd, 2008

Payday Yes c/o Loren R. Cook and Associates Ltd., LLP
2500 Wilcrest, Suite 201
Houston, Texas 77042
Ph: 888-468-0509
Fax: 888-468-0511

After doing research on internet payday loan laws in the state of California, I have found that your internet payday loans are actually illegal and your company is not licensed in the state of California. I have also found the following laws to be true applying to payday loans in the state of California in general:

Citation:
Cal. Fin. Code ???????? 23000 to 23106

Loan Terms:
Maximum Loan Amount: $300
Loan Term: Max: 31 days
Maximum Finance Rate and Fees: 15% of check
Finance Charge for 14-day $100 loan: $17.65
apr for 14-day $100 loan: 459%

Debt Limits:
Maximum Number of Outstanding Loans at One Time: One
Rollovers Permitted: None (cannot charge fee for extension)
Cooling-off Period: None
Repayment Plan: Voluntary (no fees may be charged in conjunction with payment plan)

Collection Limits:
Collection Fees: $15 NSF fee
Criminal Action: Prohibited

Your company should actually not issue loans to California residents at all as you are not licensed in California.

I have contacted the California Office of Financial Institutions and the California State Attorney General????????s Office regarding your internet payday loans and was informed they are indeed illegal in California and was advised to pay what is due according to principle amount only of the loan.

The legal amount that could have been charged to my loan is the principal amount of $750 even if your internet pay day loan was legal in California. I only owe $750 to have this paid in full as your company has exceeded the maximum loan amount and has exceeded the maximum finance rate and fees. I am willing to pay the amount of $750 to pay the principle amount of the loan only, as advised by my Department of Financial Institutions and my state Attorney General's office. I will propose to pay this amount in seven installments of $107.15 a month beginning 4/25/08, but be advised, amount of payments could change depending upon amount already paid through debits of my bank account. Upon the receipt of the final installment, I demand that my account be marked Paid in Full and this be sent to me in writing.

I demand a physical address to mail payments to, as you are no longer authorized to debit my bank account. You must provide me with a physical address to mail my payments. I will not Money Gram or Western Union any payment. If no physical address is provided for me to mail payment to, no payment will be made.

I demand that any contact be made through US Postal mail or email only. I will need everything in writing to keep accurate records of all communication as per instruction from my state Attorney General's Office.

I prohibit you or your affiliates to contact me via telephone at my place of employment or my home telephone number. I also prohibit you from calling my references listed on my loan. Once I inform you of this, you must stop the telephone contact immediately or you will be once again breaking the laws of the state of California.

You are also hereby notified that I am revoking any voluntary wage assignment I may or may not have signed. I no longer authorize you, your company, or your affiliates to attach any part of my wages or contact my employer for your collection purposes.

I am revoking your right to debit my checking account any longer. You, your company, or your affiliates are not authorized to debit my checking account at all. Please be aware that I have informed my financial institution of this situation and they will also be receiving a copy of this correspondence. Any further attempts at debiting my account will be rejected by my financial institution.

I must also inform you that I have filed complaints with the Better Business Bureau, the Federal Trade Commission, and my state Attorney General's Office.

I expect a response from your company no later than 4/12/08 regarding this matter. This response may only come via US Postal mail or email. No telephone contact is permitted.



Ashley S.



Cc: Better Business Bureau
Federal Trade Commission
California State Attorney General
California DFI
Bank of America

Sent via: Fax - 888-468-0511
Certified Mail
Email ???????? info(at)paydayyes.com

i would research your state laws in regards to recording calls.then i would resend your letter with an addendum stating that any and all calls regardless of origin,will be recorded.

California reqires consent of all parties to record. You can say that "the conversation is being recorded and by remaining on the phone you are agreeing to the converstion being recorded." It is a way around it. Make sure that part is recorded also.

Thank you for the input. I'm going to just go ahead and respond to the email with the following response:

Dear Ms. Rogers,

As previously stated in a letter to your company dated April 3rd, 2008, I will only correspond with your company via email or regular mail. All communication must be in writing so that I may keep accurate records as I've been instructed.

It's my understanding that one, possibly two, debits, each in the amount of $187.50, have been withdrawn from my account. The original loan amount of $750 has now been reduced to a balance of $562.50, possibly less if a second debit has been processed. I propose to pay the balance in five installments of $112.50 beginning on April 25, 2008. Each payment will be paid on the 25th of each month thereafter until the balance has been paid in full. Upon the receipt of the final installment, I demand that my account be marked Paid in Full and this be sent to me in writing. Please be advised, these amounts could change if I find two debits have been processed through my account.

As stated in the aforementioned letter, I demand a physical address to mail payments to, as you are no longer authorized to debit my bank account. You must provide me with a physical address to mail my payments. I will not Money Gram or Western Union any payment. If no physical address is provided for me to mail payment to, no payment will be made.

Below please find a copy of the letter already sent to your company in case for some reason you are not in possession of it.

I expect a response to this arrangement proposal no later than Friday, April 19th, 2008.

Sincerely,

Ashley S

I am also dealing with this company right now. Received a rather poorly written e-mail from one of their reps, "Crystal." To quote it exactly:

I recieve your e-mail and you are refusing to pay due to Arizona State Laws. If you look in your contract, we are not from Arizona and your laws doesnt go with our Company. Very possible that your account will be sold to a debt collector. I advise you to work with us. Give us a call 1-800-420-8025- or email us Recoveries(at)paydayyes.com

They also called me after I told them not to contact me by phone. What a surprise. Again, same old argument---"your state laws don't apply," blah, blah, blah. Getting tired of hearing that line of reasoning. Time to send out those complaint letters for this company too.

Honestly, I don't feel very threatened by them--not sure why. It does scare me a bit, the idea that they could call my employer. However, I am leaving my current job at the beginning of May, so even that doesn't bother me too much. I feel like I've given these people way too much power over me in the past and I'm not going to do it again. Let them keep on trying. I've paid them more than enough; no more from me.

I feel the same way you do. I received a call from them today, despite two letters stating they are not to contact me via phone. I called tonight when I got home only to be put through a system that kept me on hold and never sent me to a voicemail option as it said it would. I have decided that I'm going to resend the email I sent yesterday - I'm sticking to my guns and not communicating with them in any other way except through written correspondence.

Good luck in your dealings with them, let me know how it goes!

I don't know if I am dealing with this pdl in particular, but it seems as though they all have the same response. They follow their state lawas not mine and so on, and so on. Just keep replying like you are. That is what I am doing. Right now it seems never ending, but all of the more experianced people here keep telling me it will get better! Good luck!

Thanks so much! Yeah, I think they all pretty much follow a similar protocol, and they don't think anyone is smart enough to call them on their shady dealings. It's rough for sure but I know it will get better! I will be curious to see how your situation with them pans out, let me know!

I received this email this morning - it's actually quite funny, they can't even get my name right! I also think that it's funny that they think just because it's an internet loan it's legal - these people are too much!

Dear Amy

I received your email this is an internet loan therefore it is legal. You borrowed this money we give you the money in your time of need now you need to repay the money. Customer service went over the fees with you and you accepted with the esign. I am willing to work with you in the repay with a payment plan or settlement you have the address for the mailed payments or you can contact me @1-800-420-8025 for any concerns this account is in review to be forwarded from our office and they will not work with you in this. So please contact Stacy today. With out arrangements I can not hold or help you in this matter so please call.

Thank You
Stacy Rogers

Looks like many of the letters we see...

Quote:

LOL Roxy - I was wondering the same thing! I'm going to reply to this email tonight, I'm just trying to come up with a snappy response. :D

ashley, advice, with your something snappy, be sure to include your original letter...you want to drill it home that you are not going to budge.

Funny you should mention that Roxy, because I have sent it along with every single email I've sent them!

This is my response - please respond with any input, changes, etc. because I would really appreciate it!

Dear Ms. Rogers,

To begin with, my name is Ashley, not Amy. Probably best to check your correspondence for accuracy before sending it out.

Secondly, the fact that this is an internet loan does not make it legal. Your company is not licensed to do business in the state of California, and regardless of whatever state the company is located in, you must follow the law of the state in which the consumer resides.

Note the following:

"23005. (a) No person shall offer, originate, or make a deferred deposit transaction, arrange a deferred deposit transaction for a deferred deposit originator, act as an agent for a deferred deposit originator, or assist a deferred deposit originator in the origination of a deferred deposit transaction without first obtaining a license from the commissioner and complying with the provisions of this division." Doing deferred presentment business in California without obtaining license is illegal."

California law states the limit on payday loans is $300 - you've loaned me $750, $450 over the legal limit.

California law states that rollovers are not permitted - you've tried to roll this loan over four times now at a cost of $187.50 each time.

California law states that fees for Deferred Presentment transaction (payday loan/cash advance) shall not exceed 15% of the face value of the check - pretty self explanatory.

I have never, ever, at any time during any communication with your company, said I would not pay back what I borrowed, in fact, I've clearly outlined a repayment plan that should be more than acceptable. I have, however, done research on internet payday loans since my dealings with your company and am now fully aware of my rights as a consumer. I have every intention of paying back what I borrowed, but I will only pay $750 to have this paid in full as your company has exceeded the maximum loan amount and has exceeded the maximum finance rate and fees. Once again, the payment schedule is as follows - there is a balance of $562.50. I propose to pay the balance in five installments of $112.50 beginning on April 25, 2008. Each payment will be paid on the 25th of each month thereafter until the balance has been paid in full. Upon the receipt of the final installment, I demand that my account be marked Paid in Full and this be sent to me in writing.

I will send my payments to the Wilcrest address, I gather from the wording of your email this is the correct mailing address, and expect payments to be applied to the balance immediately upon receipt.

As previously stated, all communications between myself and your company are to be via email or US postal mail only. Below please find a copy of my original letter dated April 3rd, 2008.

Sincerely,

Ashley S.

Wow...Impressive Ashley! Excellently worded...As an FYI, I have read in several places on this fourm that once you do send payment, if they "cash" it, that technically, they are accepting your terms of your proposal.

Thanks Roxy! That's my understanding as well, that if they accept payment then that's it, they're agreeing to the terms. Wish me luck!

A BIG thanks to everyone here as well, this place has been a source of so much great information and has really helped me see a light at the end of the tunnel! :)

Wow, these people just don't give up! It's amazing how they think they can skirt around the laws. Now I'm just really mad and all of this is going straight to the AG and BBB's of both DE and TX, as they're on file in both states. Funny, they have two for DE, the newest being opened 4/15/08, which is the same date the Texas one was opened. The other one in DE, which had a DE address, had multiple complaints. I know it's the same company because they have the same phone numbers.

Anyway, here's the latest!

Dear Ashley

This account is collections there is no way to stop calls to you unless I have arrangements for balance. I can not settle this account for $562.50 you borrowed $750.00 with a finance fee of $187.50 you have only made one payment of $187.50 your account balance is now $1,5090.00. I am willing to work with you however you must contact me with arrangements. The calls will continue until arrangements are made. Thank you.

Thank You
Stacy Rogers

What is your phone situation at work Ashley?

Rather than wait for your response, I'll just post the information. If you have a direct line to where you are working, let all calls if possible go to voicemail. There are going to be quite a few. They will also contact your boss, they contacted mine and she took care of the person in a way that was to say the least, impressive. At this point, make sure you have reported this to the AG, the Better Buiness Bureau, and the FTC (I believe they have an online site that allows you to post your complaint) My situation ended after a police officer called this company directly, all contact stopped immediately, I did not send them a dime and was advised by an attorney to leave it alone. I would have paid them what I borrowed, but they were not letting me mail the payment-they wanted my account access or they wanted it Western Union. The agent at Western Union advised me not to send money to this company either, I was a little scared at that point. It has been a year now, I was contacted by an "attorney" once, and I stated that I disputed this debt and they hung up on me. I called them back, and they said they would let their client know,,and that was four months ago. I've not heard a word. The moral of all this is 1-Push harder than they do, and they will push. 2) Get legal advice and do not allow any more access to your account and do not send this via Western Union. I don't care how they are set up, or where they are or are not licensed, the way they do business is frightening and they will get their money back by my rules at this point, not theirs, and they can take me to court. Get ready to play hardball, this company is truly the scariest company I have ever seen.

Wow Biscuit, thanks so much for the info. I have filed a complaint with the BBB and the FTC, and filed a complaint with the Department of Corporations, who handles these types of businesses. Right now I don't know what I should do next. Should I respond to this email with the complaints that have been filed or what? I've already stated all the legalities multiple times, which they're ignoring, which says to me they KNOW they're doing something shady.

Advice?

For every email they sent me for the first little bit, I sent the same response. That I had filed complaints, they would be repaid, but I would need a copy of their business license, their physical mailing address, and a break down of all charges affiliated with the loan. I gave them a cut off date to send me the information via Certified Mail..they never sent it. I never took one of their phone calls at work; I have my own line at my desk and I allowed it to go right to voicemail. In my email responses I specifically told them that phone calls would not be taken, or returned-period. I had a police officer also call to warn them about threats etc. because they got pretty abusive. After a little bit, Vincent Cignarele's office contacted me, and I did return their call, stated I disputed the validity of the debt, and they told me "no one has ever done that before" and said they would let the original company know. They called me two more times, the final time, I got unpleasant with the "attorney rep." I told him that no money would be paid out period, until I had the information I requested. There would be no account access given period. Then all contact stopped. While I do feel obligated to pay them what I borrowed, I will not do it on their terms. I just pretty much got fed up, got some confidence back, started researching, and realized I don't have to play the victim in this scenario. These types of businesses have run rough shot for too long know, and while I think they do provide a service that could be good, there needs to be some regulation there. Hang in there sister, you aren't alone, but you don't have to take crap, don't play the victim.

Thanks for the encouragment Biscuit, it helps a lot! After speaking with my sister, who's a paralegal, I decided to just not respond to the email to see what would happen, as what I would say wouldn't have been any different then what I'd already told them. Below is the email I received the following morning:

Dear Ashley

I received your email. All I can do at this point is note the account for you that you will be mailing a payment by the 25th of April, 2008 in the amount of $112.50. I will remove the number to your employment. . When you mail a payment if you could email me to let me it has been mailed so it can be noted to your account. Thank you in advance for your payments.

Thank You
Stacy Rogers

So that's where it stands right now. I have no problem paying what I borrowed, but like you said, it won't be paid back on their terms, it will be on mine. All the appropriate agencies have been notified via complaints about this company, so I guess now I just wait and see what happens!

Good Job Ashley!!! :D

Thanks so much! I got an email from them this morning (standard letter) stating they were turning it over to collections since I had chosen to ignore them (which I haven't, obviously). I responded saying I had been in constant contact with Ms. Rogers and would be more than happy to forward all correspondence with her regarding my account. I also stated I had designed a replayment plan of the original loan amount and taken steps as consumer regarding their business and its practices. After I sent it I also discovered they had received my payment I sent Friday, so it's a done deal as far as I'm concerned!