What action can be taken against Account Solutions Group?

Too bad your opinion doesn't matter. ASG and other agencies have been using the message for months now with no sign of pending litigation.

Well, I think that everyones opinion matters....
And may I ask you, 'Guest', what is it you do for a living? You seem so sure of your answers. Why does it state in the rules that they cannot leave messages? Where does it state that they CAN? Maybe I missed something.........

cajunbulldog's opinion absolutely matters! Just remember that it only takes one persont to file a lawsuit to put some collection agency in its place. It has happened many times.

Hey Cajun, we better keep our opinions to ourselves, someone may not approve of them. Thats most likely just David Jacobs trying to shut ya down.

Opinions are like a**h***s,everyone has one & quite a few of them are smelly. The day I worry about some anonymous poster is probably gonna be the day I no longer desire to help out here.I expect that to be when I am a lot older & grayer. Guest,just remember as Sassy said it only takes one person to start up a lawsuit.

Right, so any lawsuit that pops up because of this message would be going directly against a judge's ruling on the matter already. Which way do the debtors really want it? Do they want to be "inconvenienced" by having to call to find out what a collection message is or do they want to be mad about third-party disclosure on verified home numbers and personal cell phones?

Guest always remember that underlying debt has absolutely nothing to do with a collector following fdcpa & FCRA. You have peaked my interest so I will check with some consumer lawyers I know and find out which way the courts are swaying on the voicemail subject.

I have gathered some legal material on this subject and will post after I have deciphered them to an understandable level. :shock: :shock: Dog gone lawyers must study long and hard to bombard you with words and take a month and a moon to get to the point. :evil: I do respect our attornies here,it just makes some caselaw very difficult to read without having all the degrees and training to read it.

I have no respect for people who come here, make dumbass comments, and use 'guest' as their credible alias.

Amen to that, Anthony. It is getting old already. If you have nothing to hide, then register with the site instead of posting as a guest so you can stay anonymous.

looking forward to the lawyers answers, Cajun....
Guest---where do you get your info from? You seem so sure of your answers. I am new here, but I am not sure about you being a reliable source of info. When someone hides behind walls and talks, well..............

I'd sure love to know what comments I've made that you consider "dumbass" comments. I've been nothing but cordial, so these personal attacks are really unwarranted by all of you.

Be careful throwing the word dumb around...someone may get offended! You know how it is!

And Guest...if you are so sure of yourself and your answers why are you hiding behind guest? Why not log in with a member name? I suspect its because you are one of infamous collectors who violates any and all laws!

Guest who is bringing up the comments about the legality of voicemail,I understand your position and will be able to go one way or the other soon.Even though guests are allowed to post,we have had so many that have done their best to trash this board. I would really like to know your information sources,but that is entirely up to you.

Enclosed is some caselaw cites that deal with voicemails

Belin v. Litton Loan Servicing
Stinson v. Asset Acceptance, L.L.C.
Foti v. NCO Fin. Sys., Inc.,
Hosseinzadeh v. M.R.S. Assocs., Inc.
Joseph v. J.J. MacIntyre Cos., L.L.
Wright v. Credit Bureau of Georgia, Inc.
Chlanda v. Wymard

Foti v. NCO Fin. Sys, 2006 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 13857

There is an active lawsuit to test this message.It is borderline legal according to the proper people,but the lawsuit claims third party disclosure which should make an easy case to prove.

Here is the header for the active class action that has been filed to test the legality of this message per third party disclosure.

Personal attacks are prohibited.Cajunbulldog

If you are the same guest that started me on this path,why in the heck are you attacking me when I went thru the trouble of finding law that backs both sides of this discussion. Don't understand that one bit.

i owe no debt and ASG keeps calling and won't say what they want are who they are. they leave emergency messages and scare you to death for nothing. i told them to stop calling and now i called the state attorney general and filed a complaint and FCC.

So you're aware, this is the original Guest who was speaking about the voicemail message. I've registered so as to avoid confusion.

For the record, it doesn't matter one way or the other if that particular message is used. I believe I can convey a better message without having to mention I'm a debt collector... We are restricted in that if we know it's a verified number, we HAVE to leave that message. If not, we can leave a different message. I personally prefer leaving my own personal message.

Thanks for taking the time to look into this subject Cajun. :)
And 'doubleclique', so you are a collector...(?) Exactly how do you know that it is a verified number? If no contact was ever made to the person whom you are trying to reach, that person may not live there anymore. In my case the phone # is not even in my name and I have never really had any contact with a REAL person associated with ASG. I just don't see how leaving a message like this is legal.
Also, off the topic here, I read somewhere today that Florida is starting a thing where you can freeze your credit report, where you have to give your consent for someone to look at your report, (it's a good thing, and it's a bad thing.)

Well my other friends in the consumer world are very interested in testing this message. There are a few lawyers,law students,advocates,and pro se plaintiffs that will shortly be joining the crowds filing suit on this message. It will be interesting to see if this message survives jury trials. What is even more interesting is a person I know who owns his own collection agency says his lawyers are not gonna touch that message with a ten foot pole. ASG and others have more problems than just this message just by looking them up on the US federal court system. They have been sued numerous times for fdcpa violations. The latest one I read was harassing a person for a debt that could not possibly be theirs because they were 13 years old when account was opened.Even when person had written documentation from creditor stating they were wrong person,they still pursued her.She had no choice but to sue them in return.

No collections agency is perfect. All the agency can do is teach its collectors not to break the law. Some still do. Those collectors will do so no matter what agency they work for. Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether we use that message or not. I actually think it's far less effective.

Guest you are correct.Until management in agencies start penalizing behavior that violates law,we will always have this problem.When enough consumers start sueing collectors personally in addition to agency,maybe that will help.

Screw all of you bottom feeding collectors. Get a life and pay your own damn bills, before even attempting to get a stranger to pay theirs.

Gee, you're pleasant. Someone's stereotyping with no justification. That lightbulb in your avatar is lying, because if it's the one in your head, it's sure not on. For the record... my credit is immaculate.

Cajun, that message should be shot down in court in my opinion. The CA can have no reasonable degree of certainty that they aren't communicating with a third party. Someone might have answered the phone and "pushed 1" for "yes I am John Doe" out of curiousity. Lately, I've heard of some fully automated calls which are similar. If someone pushed 1, for "affirmative", they would have all the consumer's information.

Guest, if you are not a bottom feeder, than you should have not taken offense, hence your reversal should have been non existant. Care to explain?

Sorry, I was not logged in. Anyway, as I was saying, if you are a reputable collector, than why feel offended about the bottom feeder remark?

Any person who is secure in themselves needs not victimize others for their own twisted fetishes, such as collecting.

Got another call from them (ASG) this morning at 8:05. I answered and no one was there, or should I say they didn't say anything, I hung up and picked up the phone a few seconds later and they were still on the line. I then pushed a few of the phone buttons and said 'operator this is one of them' :wink: and I hung up.....had no calls all day from them. HA!

Hey Lemonade, it's just a job.

Law Student,there is a class action case going on in California right now and a few fellow advocates I know are researching because they also want to test this message in court.The class action is based on guess what!Third party disclosure.

Hey Lemon tree, I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't think myself less of a person for what I do. I don't get my jollies by calling people and telling them to *gasp* pay the money they owe to my client. Sure, the balance is full is due on the account, but there are always options. The fact is, a lot of debtors have this stigma about talking to collectors because they think we try to demean them and make them feel horrible about owing money. We don't need to; they already should feel bad about it. They took money from a creditor and didn't give it back. It's like going into a store, taking a candy bar, eating it, and when caught, telling the security guard, "Oh, I don't have the money." Exactly the same. How would you feel if you loaned someone money and then when you tried to ask them to pay it back, they ignored you, or hung up on you, or yelled and swore at you? My guess is you wouldn't like it. In my case, my client tried for at least six months before it comes to my office to ask them for repayment. They didn't do so. They asked nicely. They used customer service. The debtor still didn't give the client the money it rightfully should be getting back. Customer service at that point ENDS. The client was nice for SIX MONTHS. I don't have to be. Although I still am, and still get abused. I get verbally abused far more than I give it. All I'm doing is calling you on the phone. I'm not coming to your house and sitting on your porch waiting for you to come home. I'm not literally coming up to you and telling you that you are scum for owing my client money. I'm asking for the money you owe my client. I'm not destroying your life. If you don't agree with being charged late fees and over-the-limit fees and interest, you never should have agreed to use the credit card. It's all there in the cardholder agreement. Debtors get so upset when that is brought up. "I never agreed to all those charges!" Yes, you did. Don't deny you did; it's not true. You never thought you'd be charged them, I know. But you were, and they are perfectly legal and appropriate.

I'm sorry some of you think collectors are evil, malicious beings, and it's true, some of us are. Not all of us. Not even most of us. In fact, I would say over ninety percent are pleasant people with customer service skills. It's just a job. It's not a baptism into evil. Maybe when you understand that, Lemon drop, you'll be less of an angry person.

Guest, I appreciate your play on my name, and displays the truth of your level of intellect. Anyway, I asked you why you would take offense to the 'bottom feeder' remark, if your hands are clean.

At least I display who I am with no 'guest' disguise. Please expose your true identity, so that we may all relish in the perfect human being.

I'm doubleclique. I'm having difficulty staying logged in, so I'm not bothering. Same person been posting in the thread the whole time.

Oh, and playing on your name is just trying to make you chuckle a little, since you seem to be such an unpleasant person and all. No offense meant, of course. ;)

The fact that I am able to conduct a coherent, logical conversation should be enough to prove my level of intellect. So because I made fun of you a little, that drops my level of intellect in your eyes? Quite frankly, your short-sightedness and inability to see the other side of the issue is far worse.

I never said I took offense to your comment about my job. I just mentioned that you were stereotyping without justification. You never hear about the decent collectors, just the bad ones.

Cajun, I'll have to look up that class action. I find it interesting. Some say that the recen California disclosure law (when recording a call) might have effects across the country as well, but I believe that will take quite some time.

I am sorry guest...your posts would have been much more intelligent if you had left the name calling out of it...there really was no need to make plays on peoples names.

So saying I have a twisted fetish and calling me a bottom-feeder is more intelligent?

Nope I never said that either...I am just saying that if you wanted to prove how intelligent you are, you would have skipped the name callin all together...It takes a bigger man....

Guest you will find a hard audience here.Know this if you are truely one of the rare collectors who follow the law,your views are welcomed here.There have been tons of people here who have been hammered by the collection industry with collectors breaking laws. I don't advocate anyone not pay their bills,simply require both the consumer and the collector/creditor follow the law when dealing with the credit transactions.

guest/doubleclique I don't think anyone here is advocating not paying your bills or what you owe. Also your analogy about the candy is a little off. That is called shoplifting and is a crime punishable by jail time. Defaulting on a credit card or loan is not a crime. A more apt analogy would be if the store owner gave me the candy bar and told me I could pay it back later and I did not make full payment. Now if someone gets a credit card or PDL with the purpose of not paying back then yes they get what they deserve, but the majority of people are not like that and do want to pay back their debts.

Regarding if I personally loaned someone money and they didn't pay, yes I would be upset. However I would not call them on the phone every day and harass them either. I would not threaten them with jail or getting them fired also. I would work within the law, and if necessary take them to court and let the court decide. Then I would never loan them money again. Even though yes we are responsible for our debts and what we sign, these credit card companies are not without fault either. They hide many of the terms in conditions in small print and legalize, which most people do not read. Many of these credit card companies can be very predatory in their lending, they are also taking a chance by giving cards to people with bad credit. They also love to go after students and give them cards when they shouldn't be giving them cards. Yes the consumer is ultimately responsible and should try if at all possible to pay their debts, but the credit card companies are not without fault also. Maybe if they were not so greedy they wouldn't run into so many problems. Also many times credit card companies do not try to collect for six months or contact the person, but they love ringing up those charges, making it hard for people to pay back. Yes those fine print disclosure statements may be legal, but appropriate, not necessarily in the ridiculous charges they make.

Many people here on the forum are also coming here because of pay day loans also. Now these PDL companies shouldn't even being doing business in some states and charge rates that are against the law, so they have just as much blame when people don't pay. And yes people should read the small fine print, but these companies should read the laws of the states they are lending in also.

Over 90% of colletors are nice and have customer service skills? In my experience its more closer to 50/50. If it was over 90% as you said then there would not be forums like this or the need for the government to pass laws to protect the consumer from CA's.

There's a lot more to debts than "pay your bills". Also, I don't there think there are many people that enjoy wrecking their credit which affects their credit score and prevents them from buying a house or car or getting other types of credit. No, people want to pay their debts for the most part and they are not looking to "steal" from these companies.

I've just encountered ASG this afternoon. They claimed they just recieved a collection from a bank in which I haven't had a n account with for over 4 years. I called the original branch were I opened and closed the account and they told me they have no record of my account having any negative balances or anything to warrant having the account sent to collections. It makes me wonder if these creditors even have the right information. When I tried to obtain information from the representative from ASG, they said they couldn't tell me specifically when or why I owed the money, only a total and that a payment arrangment could be made. They wouldn't even tell me a fax number or mailing address for the company without arguement.
They want me to pay them money on some debt I'm totally unaware of from a sorce that says I'm in good standing with them. Without even giving me any info on my own account.
Isn't it the law that they have to give me notification and and a written statement explaining why they're asking for money before I pay them?

If one wishes to sway my opinion of collectors, they are mistaken. I am not an unpleasant person, as our Guest suggests, I just do not display pleasantness to bottom feeding collectors and the lies that they barf up as comments here.

lets try using facts here. First, you have no earthly idea if that is actually what you have. All you see is the info that pops up on your screen. Tell me--is each debt validated? How so? Do you have any idea? The answer is NO, you do not. All you see is some account information--the fact of the matter is that so many times today the info a collector has is false, or they are contacting the wrong person. Until you KNOW FOR CERTAIN that the person on the phone legitimately owes that money to your client, then you dont have a case.



Sorry, but that is crap right there. If collectors didnt need to demean people to do their jobs, then the fdcpa would not even exist. Laws were created specifically because far too many people in your industry acted and continue to act precisely in this manner. So, DO TELL, why in the world would ANYONE think that a debt collector would demean them?!?!? Even you should be smart enough to answer that question. Why does everyone hate used car salesmen?? Same thing--the reputation is well-demonstrated and precedes you.



All of which is 100% ASSUMPTION on your part. Last time I knew, thins country guarantees that a person is innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof rests upon the shoulders of you and your employers. Case in point--I found out last year that a bank in Tennessee claims that I took out a $40K mortgage note with them. One problem--I have never one day resided in that state. This is the deal--the original creditor reported this debt out of the blue to my credit report. I disputed it, and the creditor ADMITTED THEIR ERROR AND REMOVED THE ENTRY FROM MY CREDIT FILE. Now, a third party has gone and bought this exact same "debt". And to this day they still assert that I "owe them money and refuse to pay it back", just like you assume. Like I said, you have the burden of proof upon you.

And until you prove to me that I do legitimately owe you money, you would be a complete moron to think I am gonna pay you one red nickel.



The Fair Debt Collection Practice Act states otherwise. Gee, its only a federal law, why should you follow it, right?



And 99% of the time, this is done illegally. Most of the time this is done with at least one violation of federal law taking place. Another case in point--LTD Financial. This CA has called my house up to 8 times a day. Sometimes, they call every two-three minutes. This is so clearly illegal that it isnt even funny. On top of it all, they arent even registered with my state to legally collect debts within LA....so once more, if you all just followed the law none of this reputation would exist.

Also, there you go again with the assumption that everyone youc all really does owe that money. In the last few years I have had multiple items showing up as "legitimate debt" from states I never even lived in, such as utility bills! how the hell would I have an old electric company account from Colorado when I have never even lived there?? But that guy told me the same thing you just said--"he was only trying to get me to pay the money I OWE..."

Better luck next time...



The only thing I agree with you on--that many consumers are immature and dont use their head when they use their credit. But your problem is that you lump all "debtors" into that category.



Show me proof that 90% of your industry is within the law. I would LOVE to see this. And dont cite some collection industry internal crap either.

In either case, you should look around this place. You would notice something--no one is bashing companies that are doing a legitimate, legal business here. What we do see, however, is plenty of people like you lumping all "debtors" into the category of "if you just shut up and paid your bills none of this would have happened". Pot, meet kettle....

I am intelligent enough to know that many people do in fact owe money to creditors. I am also intelligent enough to realize that owing that money doesnt make that debtor a low-class person that you and your industry are somehow entitled to treat like crap because of it. And therein lies the problem. If your profession was actually treated by its own as a profession and not an excuse to be a complete prick to people, the laws and the bad reputation you have would not exist. Dont blame the consumer for the problems in your industry, champ--they were self-made.

Let me dumb all of this down real good and simple for ya--

1--VALIDATE THE DAMN DEBT AS REQUIRED BY LAW. You have no idea how many idiots, uh, sorry, I mean "debt collectors", I have heard tell me illegal things like "I just did validate your debt, its all right here on my computer screen"....

2--TREAT OTHERS AS YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED. A little background on me--I am licensed as a bail enforcement agent in three states. In my personal experience working bail enforcement, I have dealt with some of the lowest scumbags there are in my area. IF YOU TREAT PEOPLE LIKE CRAP YOU NATURALLY INVITE A CRAP RESPONSE. These people all knew they were breaking the law, they knew they screwed up. Many of them knew they were scum--does it help or hurt me if I tell them that? I always kept it "nothing personal man, its just my job...." and treat them like PEOPLE, with some friggin dignity. And the next time I would have to go get the same guy, he would remember I was cool to him and not put up a fight usually....think about that for a minute.

None of your "I dont have to be nice" garbage holds water. Sure, you dont have to be. I dont have to be either. But just because you CAN be a jerk, doesnt make it the smart move. On a bounty case, I have the legal right to kick in your door unannounced at two in the morning and drag you out of bed to bring you to jail. Is it the smartest thing?? No. Thats why I never do no-knock entries, because you never know whats waiting on the other side of the door.

just because you CAN do something, doenst mean you SHOULD.

Skydivr... great post!!! :)

[quote]The client was nice for SIX MONTHS. I don't have to be. quote]

You know...I was able to average 138% of my budget over 7 months. This while not meeting company standards for number of calls taken (typing while conversing is a skill I lack). I never once yelled at a debtor (yes, at times, I would raise my voice slightly to bring the conversation back a professional level), never threatened a debtor, always treated the person on the other end of the phone with courtesy and respect--regardless of what I thought of them...and just like Skydvr, every once in a while I'd be dealing with a real classy :roll: person.

I spoke of the law before on this.Please read the first two links in my signature to understand your rights.Send the letter in my third link to them certified return receipt mail to preserve your rights under Federal law.Since they contacted you yesterday,they now have five days to have a mandatory validation notice letter sent to you.If they do not send it,they now owe you $1000 in statutory damages that you could get in a civil suit.It is customary to collect a few violations before proceeding to court so you can disporove any garbage defense they attempt to raise.

Great post Skydivr. You are so right. These collectors pretend that they are perfect, untarnished individuals, with the right to treat consumers like dirt, without first proving, legally, that a debt belongs to who they are calling.