Confused but interested

People are not trying to get out of what they owe.. JUST pay what they owe and not the EXTRAS that are added.. trust me most everyone on this board would like nothing more then to never of had to find this place. things happen in life a death a loss of employment.. illness and the CA dont care let them work with people that want to pay not treaten or berate them..
It can work for everyone both the CA and the consumer.. :roll:

Asking for validation is a stall. Sending a cease letter is asking to CEASE. Asking to make small payments each month is a stall. Not taking the calls is avoidance. Waiting for the SOL is a stall and avoidance.

The extras are added because that is the COST of what the company (whether it be the collection agency or the debt owner) has spend on attempting to collect what is rightfully theirs. Adding the EXTRAS is within the boundary of the law.

Why is it fair to the company to spend money just to recover their money? Why should they eat the cost of recovery?

If you borrow someone money, do you expect the amount given to be returned? Sure you do. Let's say you spend years looking for this person (at your expense) you send mail (at your expense) you send mail (at your expense) etc.... getting the picture? Nope...we sue here in America. BUT, if you were to sue a friend, you would certainly ask for your initial investment back and any money you spent trying to recover.
Why is it so wrong for a company to do the same thing?

I will not argue with you.. dont care enough.. what I will say is Reasonable amount.. and dont Make threats to come take me to jail or have me arrested???????
I have dealt with CA that were resonable and we worked it out.. but yell at me and I will hang up and you can take me to court but trust me I will come ready for a fight..

one more thing.. Does your boss at the CA know you are crusing the internet???? :? When you should be working...

I don't think that all people are trying to get out of paying their bills. I think people are tired of being taken advatage of and being treated like dirt. Life happens which can cause a person not to be able to pay something. If you read a little more you would see where comments are made in reference to trying to work payment arrangements out with creditors so the bills can be paid. But sometimes people loose a job, there is a death, there are injurys, there are illnesses, etc. Yes there are people out there that try to not pay things, but the majority of people are good people that bad things happen to. I sincerely hope that something does not happen to you to put you in a situation where you cannot pay and have to find out what it's like to have people treat you like you are the scum of the earth because something happened to prevent you from paying bills. I hope you never have to become desparate to where you take out a payday loan to pay for groceries or to keep the utilites on and have these people take advantage of you. As far as collectors go, yes they may have a job to do, but they have no right to threaten people, scare people, or verbally abuse people. I don't care what the circumstances are, NO ONE DESERVES TO BE TREATED LIKE THAT!!! It seems to me that you just have not read enough of the posts here to really see what is going on or how people are encouraged to get help.

It seems to me you are the one that needs to grow up and grow a heart and get off your high horse. Until you have walked in someone elses shoes, you have no right to judge others and their mistakes. I don't know who you are, who you work for (although I feel it is a collection agency) or what and I don't care. You are entitled to your opinion as well as any one else, but I think it is very small of you to come on someplace where there are people trying to help other and more or less put them down. Sir/Madame, you are no better than the people you are putting down.

Maybe you need to think about this!!!

And just so you know, Yes I have some debt. Yes I am trying to get out of debt. Yes, things happened to put us in this situation. Yes we took out some payday loans to help us out. Yes we are fighting preditory lenders and NO we are not trying to get out of what we owe, but right now we can only do so much. Since you don't know my whole situation, you are in no place to judge me for my circumstances, which I feel that you have done and I take it very personally!!

All fine and I see your point, Normal. However, there is one simple thing, and it's spelled out via the law of the land. Let me post it for you:
Quote:

NormalCitizen

Everything you say is fair enough. I believe you also support legitimate collection practices and this is what your post means.

We condemn and stand with our legal rights when someone does unfair and illegal collections. We ask them to validate the debt to make sure that they have our file from the original creditor. It is not for you because I believe that you have no problems when someone asks you to prove whether you are authorized on their account. Rules are for those who do not abide by it. You for one sound to be following the laws. And if you are in debt, you will also do like anyone else who wants to see their money going to the right place.

Talking about fees, every state has fixed collection fee. It's also mentioned in the contract signed with the original creditor. I know you charge exactly what is mentioned in the contract. We condemn and ask questions to those collectors who want to pocket money by illegal ways. You are not one of them, are you?

And I might add, that most of the people I have encountered here are more than willing to pay what they owe, but just can't do it all at once. I, for one, use to be able to pay everything and still have a little extra left over, but then things took a turn for the worse for me and I just didn't have funds coming in like I use to and then had to make choices, do I eat, do I pay the utilities, do I pay the rent or do I pay the other bills? Hmmmm I have 2 kids that go to school...do I buy them school supplies and some clothes to go to school in (and yes, I have shopped many times at good will and places like that)? Do I get them glasses because they have a hard time seeing the board or cannot learn to drive without them? Do I have their teeth fixed when they have cavities? We were back on track and were able to get a house and then guess what, I got sick and had to have surgery. There goes that paycheck for a while.

Yes, everyone should be responsible for what they owe and should pay back what they are suppose to and most people want to and try. Give people credit for wanting their life back and are doing the best they can.

Here they get encouragement for every step they make toward that goal, no matter how small. They get support and they get help. The wonderful hearted people that started the board have even give people a chance to make a little extra money just by posting. What a concept, people helping people! Be surprised at how much better this world would be if more people were that way.

I think I am going to get off for a while because I am truly angry and upset with this person coming on here and be littling people. Sounds like some of the people I have talked to over the past few weeks and it just ticks me off.

To everyone else in the community, I apologize.

For the record - since everyone thinks I am a collector - I am NOT.

I am a manager for a consulting firm. I am in the industry, but we do NO Collecting.

I also agree, yelling and and threating does not work as a tactic.

I am trying to see the light from the other side of the tunnel.

Normal Citizen- You need to know all the fact before you start casting "why dont you just pay your bills" some people dont have the money to just pay everything off at once. I wish I did.....personally I find it real offensive TO ME that you come on here and think all we are trying to do is STALL. That is BS and you really ought to not judge people like that...like we are thugs living off the goverment. Some people just blow my mind at times.

What irked me most about NormalCitizen's post was the phrase "WHY NOT JUST PAY YOUR BILLS???" This implied that he/she believes that the members of this forum have the funds required to pay their bills and simply do not want to. If only we all could live a life of selective debt.

The most common situation I've read about on this board -- and I've read hundreds of posts already -- is the one of sudden tragedy striking and an inability to continue paying out what was once comfortably afforded. If someone were to suffer an injury that prevented him from earning his normal weekly paycheck, the balance on the mortgage taken out six years ago will not simply vanish, the electricity will not stop costing so much, his children won't cease to require food.

Not all who take out PayDay Loans and max out credit cards are thieves hoping to acquire nice things and skip out on the bill. And those who owe money are not always guilty of living beyond their means. NormalCitizen's opinion does not seem to take any of these things into account. I have known those who have taken money from lenders with no intention of paying it back, but not everyone here or throughout the world can be lumped together in that category. Many were once "normal citizens" with plenty of money to afford their standards of living.

Circumstances deteriorate and understanding is needed. Many here would gladly pay back extra on their debts -- be they mortgages, credit cards, or past due utility bills -- if those companies would show compassion and give them breathing room until their situations evened out again. That rarely, if ever, happens. If it did, it would take people a lot less time to get back on their feet and start paying their bills again. But every company demands its money; people turn desperate and are forced to seek help wherever they can. Not all of us have relatives that can comfortably afford to add another household's expenses to their budgets.

Well said Allura- He/She done offended me and I think its total BULL $hit!!

MU-DAK! :twisted:

NormalCitizen:

Many here are suffering from the iPLD syndrome. My wife got caught up in this without my even knowing it until it was too late. I AM paying her bills but I will not be billied into paying 1400 on an original 200-300 dollar loan when my state credit laws provide otherwise. I dont mind paying faif charges and I am prepared to do so immediately; however, I am reporting to my state CPD ALL of these loan sharks who violate licensing and interest rate cap laws.

I do understand "Circumstances deteriorate" "things change" "jobs are lost" "people are injured"....I get that. I am human also.

I am not questioning that. I am wondering why do the validation of debt. When you lost your job - you knew you owed the debt. Why then pretend years later that you don't. Why request the validation?

Posted by another ... "those companies would show compassion and give them breathing room until their situations evened out again." Why do you feel these companies "owe" you this? Did they injure you? Did they cause you to loose your job? I do not understand why you think companies who lend in good faith (expecting to be paid back) should wait until you "get back on your feet".

This is the mentality that confuses me.

Hey Normal there ain't nothing normal about you if you come here, point a finger in peoples faces and act like an idiot.

I do peoples accounting for a living, tell me something don't you think that the older people don't want the $125000 ( have a bypass at 54 w/ no insurance) in medical bills but have no insurance, do you think they are STALLING when they make monthly payments (they are trying with limited income to be on the up and up), What about the young mother who struggles to make her car payment so she CAN get to work, is she avoiding the car comopany calls because she turns the phone off, no because she knows her answer will fall on deaf and abusive ears. She has enough crapy in her life without some stranger telling her to borrow more money from family or friends. If you could see what I see, what these people go through to pay their bills.. well you will never see what I see because YOU (yes I am pointing my finger in your face) are an idiot and you know it, God help you to be Normal.

"Posted by another ... "those companies would show compassion and give them breathing room until their situations evened out again." Why do you feel these companies "owe" you this? Did they injure you? Did they cause you to loose your job? I do not understand why you think companies who lend in good faith (expecting to be paid back) should wait until you "get back on your feet".

BECAUSE ITS CALLED COMPASSION AND HUMANITY which you seem to lack

As for debt validation, if I get a letter from Davidson's Department store for a credit card from 1988, its been bought by a junk debt buyer and the SOL long since passed, the clothes that were bought I have long since given to Goodwill and its over (yes that happened to me)

DV has its place and time but it is useful, not everyone is going to be an honest and forthright citizen, WE ALL KNOW THAT but How dare you come in here and point a finger and say YOU ALL, because that is putting this whole website in one large group and generalizing all of us as dishonest citizens.


You are a Butt! normal!

Guest - go ahead and point your finger in my face. I will be sure to share that info with MY 15 yr old child that I had when I was 17 and a SINGLE mother! Don't think for a second I havent walked in these same shoes, or that I don't continue to walk in them every day.
I owe money. I have had the collection call you all speak of. Been there. But, I have NEVER said, "show me PROOF that I owe you". I owned up to the obligations I was not meeting.
I also know my limits and don't spend money I don't have. I don't ask for help on avoiding how to pay those whom I owe. I do borrow money from friends and family to pay for my obligations. I do sacrifice things to pay for the things I already owe. To the single mother who must pay her car payment to get to work.....how about riding the bus instead of making a car payment? How about driving a cheaper car, one with no car payments? How about carpooling? See...there are solutions. So, maybe that stranger is trying to offer some different ideas to someone struggling.

I help people every day pay off their bad debt. I do not help them avoid it or stall from it, or question it. I help them meet it head on.

What is wrong with that approach?

"I am not questioning that. I am wondering why do the validation of debt. When you lost your job - you knew you owed the debt. Why then pretend years later that you don't. Why request the validation?"

Because there are people who attempt to fraudulently collect debts that they do not own or have not been assigned. Some posters have had 4 different CA's collecting the same debt. It is only fair to know that you are paying the entity you are supposed to be paying, and not someone else. I am happy for you if you work for a reputable and professional CA. The majority of the posters here simply want the collectors to simply follow the law.

Perhaps people do the validation of debt to ensure that they are actually collecting on a a debt that they legitimately owe...For example, 3 years ago a CA for Capital One contacted me stating that I owed them $432 on an unpaid bill...I requested a validation and once I received that information, the CA, my bank and my self were able to determine that that bill had in fact been paid (sent them the copy of the check I paid it with) and the matter was closed. So had I not requested that infromation, I would have paid them another $432 that I did not in fact owe...Its not about not paying debts back its about not paying debts back that were already taken care of. CA make mistakes too when processing information....So why don't you get off everyones back here...And I certainly hope you have perfect credit since you are up so high on that Horse...JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED!

Subject of validation and behavior of collectors:
Validate=Because it is a person's legal right!
If a collector follows the law& acts accordingly,I have no problem paying said collector everything owed in full.

That's about all the spare time I can waste on a bs post that op has started.

also know my limits and don't spend money I don't have. "I do borrow money from friends and family to pay for my obligations" Why borrow any money if you "don't spend money YOu don't have"

Good grief, I get your picture, you play the martyr role; look at me, I am a single mom and boo hoo I work and pay my bills so why don't you all, if I can do it then you can, that is such bullcrap someone hand me a shovel its deep on this thread.

Well guess what Normal YOUR size 7 clodhoppers (or whatever size you wear) will not fit in my friends Size 4 shoe so don't you EVEN try and walk in her shoes because YOU would never make it, do you play the martyr role for your friends and family or just online where people cannot see your smirk

OK- I have heard enough name calling. We all are in the same boat. We all want to be debt free, so let's try to support and offer direction to each other. Too much time is wasted replying to these posts, when you can be helping others, so let's all try to be more understanding,ok? Karen

Get off your holier than thou "Single Mother" kick. PLEASE. You give this single mother of TWO DISABLED children a BAD NAME. My dear, you have NO CLUE what REALLY REALLY HARD TIMES ARE that HIT you out of nowhere. GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK. Here.....I'm giving you a GOLD STAR, SUKA.

I'm with Karen. The name calling and bashing needs to stop. If you disagree with someone's post, fine, just say so, but calling someone names gets us nowhere.

I personally don't agree with "normalcitizen". I think her post was intended to inflame and cause a firestorm on this board...and it had the desired results. If she really wanted to post something helpful, her post could have been worded differently, so it wasn't so blatantly in-your-face-rude and insulting to our members.

Now that she's stirred things up, and gotten the reaction she wanted, perhaps we can get back to the business of helping people with their debt and credit issues.

Amen-Sister!!..KAren

Normal - some people cannot avoid debt. How do you come up with $10,00.00 to bury a child? It has to be paid immediately, you cannot pay that off on time by making payments, you cannot even bury a child with out buying and opening a grave which you have topay for up front. You think that you know debt - you have no clue until that type of tragedy hits you. Add to that a company downsizing and you are where I am at now. I am with Steelers,Suebee and Bossy - enoughis enough - Thank God that you are not in my shoes or andyone elses here, because you are just a paycheck away from where we are!

Irish, by what this person is saying, it sounds like they would put off the burial of their child or build a pine box and dig a hole in the back yard. Not to be crude, I know you have been through hell, I could never imagine going through that. This type of person has absolutely no soul. Not to put down teen age parents, I have friends that became parents at that age, but who the hell is somebody who was playing adult games as a teenager to tell others how to run their lives?

Let me start by saying I am enjoying this debate, if that's the right term, and I hope not too many of you are really taking to heart what NormalCitizen has said and is saying. It's already been said a dozen times in this post that one must walk a mile in another's shoes before being able to fairly judge another's circumstances, actions, and motives. Yet, most of us cannot help passing some sort of judgment or another on just about everyone we meet. It seems to be human nature, and I, speaking only for myself, obviously, am fine with that. I just enjoy a good argument/debate, as long as it remains civil, though I understand that disagreeing with a viewpoint often offends many people.

That being said, I'd like to ramble a bit. I believe most of the animosity here stems from the general tone of NormalCitizen's posts, which has a sting of arrogance, perhaps pretentiousness. The very nickname chosen, "NormalCitizen", implies that there is something "not normal about" or "wrong with" everyone here who has debt troubles, and that NormalCitizen is obviously above them. This may not have been intended, but it seems to be the way most here see it.

I believe this is a good argument that many should read simply because it gives another perspective on the issues of being in debt and how various people deal with it. It may help some understand why certain people treat them the way they do regarding their financial situations, and how better to deal with and respond to it. I hope we can all try to remember that what one or even a few people think of us, as a whole or as individuals, does not change what we are, who we are, what we do, and what we will continue to do.

As for what I said in my other post about companies being a little more lenient with people who fall on hard times,a Guest hit it dead on with "BECAUSE ITS CALLED COMPASSION AND HUMANITY". It's not about who owes whom, it's about being an understanding human being and treating others like human beings. Also, I was speaking of all companies, not just lenders. Nowadays, utilities will only wait a month, maybe two, before sending out shut-off notices. There are many cases where just a phone call to them will get you on a payment plan for past due bills, but there are just as many that will shut off their services early.

If more companies were willing to work with people, there wouldn't be so many collections accounts. The companies don't owe that to people, and it doesn't even have to cost them money. Most people would gladly pay fees, and even interest, if it meant being able to keep the necessities for life throughout their hardships. Wouldn't it be nice if a single mother with a small child could keep her electricity and water and heat through the winter, even when she could only afford to pay a fraction of her bill every month? Many people would be grateful for the peace of mind, knowing they can at least survive a while longer, which would likely translate into a quick repayment of the debts.

But companies are all about profit, not people. Who cares if you can't cook or wash your clothes? Who gives a hoot if you freeze to death in your house? That's what it's all about. That's what angers most people, that they aren't people at all. It's what I believe breeds these "Why should I? I don't owe you anything" attitudes. No one's saying the company should not be fairly compensated, even rewarded for human decency. It's more about being treated with some kindness and understanding. Though, we all know that's a two way street, and there are many who would abuse that. It's a big world problem.

And as for requesting a validation of debt, even when you know that you owe it, I believe it's a good idea for everyone to do, especially in this day and age. There are so many dishonest people, dishonest companies, that a simple piece of paper with balances printed on it provides proof and safety. It's proof of exactly what you owe and it disallows a shady company to tack on more charges, claiming you owed them the whole time. If you read a few threads in this forum, you'll come across dozens of cases of exactly that happening. It's always a good idea for both parties to keep detailed records of transactions, in case something does happen later. Have you ever watched a court show on TV, like Judge Judy? She won't listen to you if you don't have documents to back up your claim.

The DV is very important. Sometimes a person will have been contacted by more than one CA claiming ownership of the debt. You pay the first one only to find out another bought it. DV is very important. Especially with identity theft. I had a collector quit his job and come to my house calling me from a pay phone accross the street. He had stolen many of his cases and was basically stalking the debtors and telling them he is outside their house and if they paid "X" amount of dollars to him, which was less than the CA was asking the problem would go away. This man was RELENTLESS, and I did not blame the CA at all, this was a disgruntled collector, people need to be careful when others come calling for money.

Thank you Steelers - I know that your life is no bed of roses either. I also have freinds that had kids at an early age - some are in great shape finacially others are in the toilet like I am and we are all well educated, none of us ever expected to be in finacial ruins in our life time - we all bought into the American Dream.

I just think it's funny when we attack back to "normalcitizen" and my my how the tables have turned.....You think just because you are a single mother that has "had no problem" paying your bills.. Do you want a cookie for that? I could really give a damn but, you have NO right coming on here and just attacking people on here. So what if you have been blessed in the financial area where you dont "need to ask for help" my hat off to you but, I have NO respect for you for just judging people without hearing the full story. I'm a single mother too. There are alot of single parents on here DOING THE BEST HE/SHE POSSIBLY CAN. How DARE you come in here and start something you know damn well that you wont win? LMFAO @ "ride the bus instead of getting a car" I know you wont give a damn about any of these things that these great people have posted. We all have 1 thing in common, opinions are like $ssholes! We all have one. If you would of came in here and tried to be more understanding I may have respected that but to tell you the truth if you were on fire I wouldnt piss on you.
This person CROSSED the line. I just hope this person never has to be in any paticular situation that makes that person a bit overwhelmed and can see at times what PEOPLE WHO JUST DONT PAY THEIR BILLS feels like!


To the community, I'm apologize for this post.

OOPS! I cant even spell right now but, you all know what I mean! GRRRRRRRRRR I'm going to eat a girl scout cookie :)

AFter getting away from this I have decided to not let this person get to me any more. I know what type of person I am and I do not have to defend myself or my actions to someone like that. Let's continue to do what we are here for, and that is to help each other and those that come here that need help. Let this person spill whatever they want to and leave them alone. They are wanting to do nothing but cause trouble and to be honest, they are not worth the effort. They will never understand anything until they have walked in some of our shoes and I pray they never have to.

Good night all and I am sure you will hear from me tomorrow, just not on this particular thread.

Well said 2ndband! I will not be on this thread as well after this....:)

I'm noticing a rather disgusting trend that is evident in this initial post. Every few months someone comes on here and is bound and determined to stir up crap-----.

I am well-educated (2 college degrees), work a full-time job, am a paid tutor and a PROUD single mother. I don't give a DAMN what anybody thinks about my life, my debt or my judgement! I am human and make mistakes daily. So jump off that high horse you have placed your butt on and either join us or beat it. Arguing about why or how someone ELSE thinks I should pay my bills or live my life is not something I am going to do---its not worth it.

You know Lorri - I was just thinking, the tone and content of Normal's post is almost identical to some of the other ca posts that have been here lately. I wonder if it is the same person,different log on. Just another ca trolling.

I Agree with you. My issues are mine, but it seems you all got to Normalcitizen, no posts in a while. This site has helped me save my home but knowing that all those "extra" fees were illegal and for months I have been paying them. When I received my 1st refund I realized you all were correct and they knew it. So to normalcitizen, take some info from me, if you bought a product and the sale price was 19.99 but when you got to the register to pay for it, they charged you 199.99 you wouldn't pay it would you??? No you would ask for the advertised price. Same case here.......please no more casting those stones.

irish---That is exactly what I was thinking--same tone, same lines---geeez someone needs to get over it and move on. We don't need it---everyone has their issues and things they deal with on a daily basis. To have someone come on here and try and start arguments is juvenile and pointless-----------------next case!

taki2u---you made a very good comparison using prices. No one ever wants to get ripped off---why should the PDLs be allowed to?

Normalcitizens- I am currently in a internet pdl mess and with the help of these people I have realized that they are illegeal and I have over paid these people by 100's of dollars. I could have taken that money and put on other bills. I agree you should pay what you owe, but some of these people are riping us off and that should be stopped. I spent an hour and half on the phone with the Kentuck Office of Finiancial Services and learned a great deal. So with that said not everyone wants to stall by asking for a letter validation. Also we don't stall when we ask for lower payment either. I hope you know that I just paid off a 12,000 dollar doctor bill today. Do you know how? By having the hospital work with me. I was not even due to have it paid off until December, but they helped me out at a hard time and I appreciated it by paying them off. I could have stopped paying them because I am filing bankruptcy, but I didn't. Some people help those who help them and I am one of them.

Thank you lorri I know we are all here for the same reason, outsiders or CA's are just bitter that has to be a tough job to just not care about anyone. I am glad I found this forum and good luck to those just joining!

I think, from my standpoint, I ask for a debt verification for a simple reason.

I didn't incur a debt with ABC Financial (or whatever the collection agency name is). I incurred a debt with Bob's Department store (or whatever, again). And, since there is a chance the the CA will tack on some fees, the amount they are asking for is different from what I remember I owe.

With influx of fraud in this world, simply asking for a debt verification let's me know just me who they are and that they really have my debt. I am not delaying.

"Normal Citizen:"

One of the most useful lessons I've learned in life is "do not judge, lest ye be judged."

Think about this.

From Normal Citizen's point of view,I suspect another collector in disguise.

It's funny how people think they are disguising themselves with a "cute" name, but the real personality is revealed through his/her writing style.

Well guys I just got one question? How am I supposed to ride a bus when we dont have one? LOL KYSIDE38

WHAT are you talking about? Did I miss something?

Lorri, Normalcitizen says to ride a bus if you cant afford those car payments. In WV I guess I would have to hitchike. LOL Never seen a bus in my area. KYSIDE38

Okay------I missed it in my hurry to read through and bypass the load of............ he was dishing out.