Scared

No it is not - there are no debtors prisons any longer. This is a scare tactic that they use to get people to pay. Now - take a deep breath and let's see if we can help. First - explain things to you boss. Next since you have filed complaints already you can e-mail this company with the laws of your state and tell them that you want your account marked paid in full according to the laws in your state and cc the agencies that you complained to. You also should close your bank account and open a new one so that they cannot debit anyhing else.

Thanks Irish. I have a meeting with my boss at 3 pm. Hopefully I'm not handed a pink slip.

He (Mr. Ragan) said something to me about a judgement, what is that about?

Just another scare tactic...

Its working... (he he) So, I'm going to email them and tell them that I am NOT going to pay them the $200 on the 30th, as promised. And I'm going to request that they mark my account as paid in full, again, and quote the ct laws?

Right, but cc the e-mail to the ag's office in ct and the FTC and any one else tht you have filed a complaint with. And inform them that you are ccing the gov. agencies. I would say that in accordance with the laws of ct you have paid in full the loan that you originally borrowed and that you expect them to mark you account paid in full, as they will get no more money out of you and you have paid back the original loan and the fair amount of interest as allowed by the laws of ct.

This is sooo stressful. This Ragan dude is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo mean. I told him that he was an a**hole this morning!

Pdl loans are illegal in CT. The laws that you are referring to applies on consumer loans. Please double check with the Connecticut Department of Banking

Address: 260 Constitution Plaza Hartford, CT 06103
Phone: (860) 240-8299
Fax: (860) 240-8167
http://www.ct.gov/dob/site/default.asp

Thanks Trenity. Where does it say that PDL's are illegal in CT? I've contacted the department of Banking, have to wait 10 biz days to hear back from them. I'm drafting a final email to Mr. Ragan. I want all my ducks in order before doing so.

It looks to me like in CT payday loans are prohibited because there isn't any legistation specifically referring to them. I would definatly check with your banking dept before you draft any letter.

In most of the states that don't have solid laws, there are a lot of little loopholes that allow companies to still borrow. I'm not saying that is the case with CT, because I don't know much about CT, but it is a possibility.

Can they put me in jail for check fraud? I know there aren't debtors prisons, but he said something about check fraud? is that for real? or another tactic?

Any type of threat is a scare tactic. Don't buy into this bs.

Thanks again Irish! You sound so confident!! How about you call this guy for me? ;-)

It really is a scare tactic. You never wrote them a check, think of it that way. No way they can call it check fraud. These places will say anything to get the most money as quickly as possible. Don't be scared. It will be ok. I was as scared as you a couple weeks ago when I found this forum.

I'm getting more confident.

This is my draft email to Mr. Ragan:

Are you sure those laws apply to payday loans? Most small loan laws don't apply to these types of loans.

Goudah, CT is the same as WV PROHIBITED!!!! This Ragen guy knows that he has already went down here. KYSIDE38

So then the small loan rate wouldn't apply. If they are prohibited no interest can be charged.

My intention of posting the CT small loan law is this:

If PD6 / Express Cash / whomever, is licensed in CT for small loans, then his company would be entitled to $351 from me, which was paid. Even though I know they aren't licensed, (I checked, there are only 44 small loan companies listed as licensed with the CT dept. of banking). So either way, whether they are licensed or not, they will be forced to close the account and mark as paid in full and stop harassing me, and my boss!!

I'm not trying to recoup any dollars (maybe I should...) I just want this dbag to stop calling me.

I kind of like harassing him back though.... :-S

Goudah I looked at Connecticut law. It is written exactly like WV. Here is where the law comes in. The legislature here in WV has Prohibited payday loans. We do not even have storefront ones anymore. If payday loans are Prohibited the contract becomes NULL and VOID. Any court will uphold that. They have to follow the law. They dont want to do that and they are paying the piper here. I made a post earlier about Apple and Payday Ok paying back consumers in this state. I sure would like to see all other states follow. KYSIDE38

There is no specific legislature on the books with regards to Payday Loans in CT that refer to prohibiting or allowing them.

KY if you find otherwise, let me know where and I'll have a look.

Sswett - That's what I've found for CT too . . . . That's why I questioned what laws apply. Sometimes when there aren't any laws regarding pdl's, and if the state doesn't have a "long arm" statute, it is legal for pdl's licensed in another state to lend to consumers and follow the laws of the state they are licensed in.

When there aren't any specific laws, there are lot's of loopholes for pdl's to wiggle through . . . .

Kyside - i sure would like to see all the other states follow too!

I tried to contact the CT banking dept to see what they would say, but they told me the only lady that would know is out on vacation until next week . . . . .

Goudah:

Awesome that you called CT banking department.

I would figure that since there isn't any specific legislature on PDL's that it would fall under the small loan law...you know, that whole giving the benefit of the doubt deal...sometimes, i'm too nice. :-S

That is too nice:)

It just sucks that no one can answer the question until next week.

But generally speaking if the pdl is illegal, they cannot charge you interest.

I guess, there is some part of me that says - I borrowed the money, so I am responsible for paying it back, which I have, plus interest of $60.

So I feel that I've repayed my debt. And that is all I want to do. I'm not out to stiff any one.

I would however like to make more people aware of the bullisht that they'll go thru if they get one of these.

I totally agree that when you borrow money, you need to pay it back. That's good morals.

I think you are right in what you are doing. Even if technically they may not be due the interest, it is fair to pay them what they could legally collect if they were following the laws. I understand where you are coming from on this one.

I agree that morally the principal should be paid back. As far as PD6 Ventures, they go under many different names. I dealt with them under the guise of "National Opportunities." Once I sent them a letter stating that they were operating illegally and that I had contacted my attorney general, they were more than willing to mark my account paid in full. The best of luck to you.

Goudah, I think that point has been cleared most everyone believes that the principal should be paid back. Just spoke with AG office in CT. The state of CT holds all lenders to their consumer loan laws. Payday lending is prohibited there. There must be a license in order to loan money also. The safe states to date from payday loans are CT GA Maine, MD MA NJ NY NC PA VT and of course good ole WV. I do not know how this information gets so misleading the Attorney Generals are the ones to handle these issues especially in the states that they are trying to fight it. Without those complaints nothing can be done. I have worked and worked with my AG office and I know they want the complaints. KYSIDE38

Actually, PA does allow companies to loan as long as they are licensed in another state. They cannot be physically located in PA.

While the AG's office handle complaints against businesses for breaking the laws, the banking dept for most states is charged with regulating and licensing these businesses. It depends on that state which one you complain to. In some cases it's both, and in some cases if you complain to one they send it to the other.

Goudah, I said these states are safe states. Which means that they have to follow the interest that that state sets. I know the situation very well in PA. However any company out of state that does have a license has to follow PA interest rate. They must have a license. Otherwise they are prohibited. I have been working on payday loans a long time and learned from the best on this forum and I do know my state laws. KYSIDE38

ssweet...

You Can Not be arrested or jailed for writing a post dated check that did not clear! They are full of crap!

In order for a lender to enact the "long Arm" law the lender would have to have an office,branch,etc in the borrowers state.

In PA a lender that is licensed can follow the laws of the state they are licensed in. I have this in writing from the guy that paydayloaninfo.org says in the state contact. PA doesn't license pdl's, because they are prohibited. And just because I haven't been on this forum as long as you doesn't mean I haven't been researching this just as long. I know a lot about banking and money lending laws. I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you over this, it's not worth it to me. But all my info is easily verifyable.

Dear Ms.:

The 9.5 discount and the 24 % simple interest refer to calculations that can be used by companies that are operating in Pennsylvania and are licensed under Pennsylvania????????s Consumer Discount Company Act. With a number of exceptions, a lender that is located inside of Pennsylvania and who does not have any special lending authority (i.e., a special license or charter) who is making smaller loans not secured by real estate can only charge interest at a rate of 6% simple.

A lender that does not have a physical presence in Pennsylvania but who has lending authority from some other state can generally charge the interest rate and finance charges allowed by that other state.

The Department may or may not be reviewing this policy and I would not count on this e-mail as an interpretive opinion before starting any lending or business operations.

James Keiser | Administrator Non-Depository Institutions

17 North Second Street, 13th Floor | Hbg PA 17101
Phone: 717.783.8242 | Fax: 717.787.8773
jkeiser(at)state.pa.us | www.banking.state.pa.us

Goudah, So you are right and the Attorney Generals office is wrong? There are numerous cases right now being fought in court over this hiearchy law. Federal law states that the loan must be followed in the borrowers state? I never intended this to be a pissing contest however you find it that you have to keep correcting me everything I post. I have never given bad advice to anyone. I learned from the best on this forum and I also have learned from the best Attorney General. KYSIDE38

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying this is what the guy in charge of licensing and regulating pdl's said. And I've never seen any federal law that says loans must be governed by the borrowers state. Then how do mortgages and credit cards charge what they do? I'm sorry if I have different information then you do, but we don't have to be so rude and mean about things. This is ridiculous. I didn't start this, I just posted the info I have.

I don't correct everything you post . . . . And I never said you give bad advice. You are really blowing this out of proportion. I come onto this site to help others with the knowledge I have. I've been involved with pdl groups in my state for years, and helped lobby successfully to get the laws changed in my state. I know how the legistalure works, and I know how to find out what the intent of laws are, and how they are read. I'm sure you do too. We are on the same side here.

This is stupid and not the point of this thread.

Well, I don't know, but I do know Kyside has been working with the Attorney General closely for some time, and has had alot of success with getting some things halted. In fact, she gave me some info from the AG, and I live in another state, but it was info I didn't know, and I've been researching and lobbying for many, many years..Karen

that's messed up that he called talking to your boss about a loan you took outwhat did he expect for your boss to pay it or maybe that your boss will take your check and give it to them..... yeah right you did the right thing buy cursing him out.

I'm sure we all have been researching this stuff for years . . . I'm just trying to say that attacking me for posting info I was told by the PA dept of banking isn't fair. I'm not making this up, and I don't want to fight over it. That is what I was told, and if it doesn't mix with what the AG says that isn't my fault that the 2 deptartments can't agree with each other.

No one is atatacking anyone-let's drop this-the info is out there and I always tell people who PM me to check out even what I say, and from that do what is best for them..KAren

Here is one term. lex loci Celebrationis. Here is a federal law and hopefully if you disagree on this one you can look it up. United States Court of Appeals for the 4th Circut has long held that this rule applies. The cContract is deemed to be executed in the state where the final act is done. McMullenVHoffman 174US639.654 (1932) regonized the common principal that a court will not enforce illegal contracts. Also See HogueKellog Co. Inc VS GL Webster Canning Co. Inc. 22F 2d 384 385 (4th Cir 1927) . All of these laws point to the same thing the contract is binding in the state where the final act is done. Do you go to say Colorado and get on a computer and sign these contracts? I know I didnt I signed in my own state in my own home. Thats where the final act was done. KYSIDE38

Kyside, sometimes I wonder if you ARE the WV attorney general! :D

those are court opinions. they are considered case law, they aren't actual law. there is a difference.

OK here is another one. I will also add that this was taken from Pollys blog. Someone whom I consider to be the true avenger of payday loans. Zippo Manufacturing v Zippo Dot Com (WD PA. 1997)

Some people need to quit going around and correcting others who are well informed and know the laws. I am sick of seeing this happen. God forbid anybody post their knowledge on any subject because the "Correction Police" will follow close behind to chastise you. This is getting absurd, it seems a person can't post without others coming behind correcting them or getting their two cents in because they can't handle seeing somebody else have the answer or suggestion. ABUSRD ABSURD. Getting out of hand and some are getting out of line.

Wow, this is really productive, I don't even remember what "scared" asked. Will have to go read her post again.

This is absolutely ridiculous!

I have no problem with being wrong. My information comes directly from the guy the regulates these types of loans for pennsylvania. It's obvious that the ag's office and the banking dept can't agree on what their own laws mean. That's not a reason to start attacking me.

I know all of those cases. I was just saying that it isn't a "law". There are a bunch more cases where the court came to the same conclusion. I've even quoted them before in past posts.

I did not start this. I'm not running around correcting everyone. We should be working together to find out why the banking dept is saying one thing, while the ag's office is saying another. Not fighting over who's right. I thought we were here to help people. Debate is a good productive thing, fighting is not.

I'm sick of some of you who keep saying I don't know anything about pdl's. You don't know me, you don't know how much research i've done on this subject, you don't know how long I've been doing it. Just because I haven't posted on this board for years doesn't mean I can't know as much as you all. And I'm not saying I know all, because I don't. Most laws are complicated and have hidden meanings and loopholes. I research what I post regarding laws, and confirm it with the regulating body before I post.

Why can't we just all get along..Somethings are being taken way out of context..you get to a point in the thread where you don't even know what the thread was about..we fight with the pdl companies and then we come here and fight too..I'm new here but I really don;t believe for a minute this is the norm..

Nasdam - this is NOT the norm, nor is it the purpose of this forum. However, it is something that's happening a lot lately, and it's not limited to one member doing it. There are a few that are posting what they feel are corrections to someone else's information, which forces the original poster to come back and feel they have to defend their information, cite laws, etc. in order to back themselves up. It degenerates into a battle after that, because then the "corrector" comes back to try and prove their point, and it just turns into a mess. Not what we need here, and it needs to stop. Sometimes it's best to say "ok, we disagree on the interpretation of the law", or "I'm wrong and you're right" - it's not that hard to do.

Payday lending laws can be VERY confusing. Some states provide protection for the consumuer, and some, like Utah, appear to only protect the lender and actually cause harm to the consumer by allowing multiple payday loans to be taken out at one time, no repayment plan guidelines, etc.