How to handle this debt collector
Date: Wed, 04/02/2008 - 11:57
I had numerous debts that I was using a credit counseling company to handle the debt. The last time I dealt with the credit counseling company was in 11/2003. I stopped using the program because I was unable to make anymore payments. In 2005, I had the funds to pay off all my debt. I contacted the creditors/collection agencies and paid my debt, except one company. I called the collection agency and left messages but they never returned my calls. I called the original cc and they said it was referred to a collection agency, the same one that would not call me back. Finally, I found out it went to another collection agency in 2005. I asked the new collection agency several times to mail a statement to me but they never would. They only wanted me to give them my account information so that I could pay the debt over the phone. They sent several letters after that though saying I could settle the account.
Fast forward to 2008. A new collection agency acquired this account. They call my house daily. They also have called my sister at her house twice looking for me. I have talked to them only twice. The first time I told them I would call them back after I did my taxes. I admit, I did not call them back because that tax money went to other bills. The second time I talked to them, on 03/31/08, I called because I wanted to set up payment arrangements. The first gentleman I talked to said it would be too late for me to make payments (I wanted to start 05/02) that they would be in court by then. But he said if I can make a payment in the next few days, they can stop the court. I said I was unable to do that and he put me on hold. Then another gentleman came on the phone saying a judgment had already been placed and there was nothing he could do. He said this twice then said if I made a pmt today, he could stop the judgment. I asked him how he could stop something he just said he couldn’t but now he could? He began raising his voice and said I pay $100 today, $100 in two weeks then the full balance in another 2 weeks. I told him I could not do that and that’s not what I had told the other gentleman. He said the form they sent me was a legal document (it’s just a letter so I’m pretty sure he was lying – this is the 2nd letter they’ve sent) and that I had 30days to pay the debt. I said it doesn’t say that anywhere on the letter. He said it was a “legal†term and that is what the letter meant. He would never let me speak, even when I asked and was just yelling in phone that they’d see me in court and I had to pay now and judgment papers were already on their way. Next day, the called me again.
Question, how do I handle this collector? I already filed a complaint with the FTC on how he said this letter is a legal document. It’s not the letter they send that says within 30 days you can dispute the validity of this debt. I got that letter over 30 days ago. This one says†our client has referred your past-due amount(s) indicated above for immediate collection. Please mail the full balance to avoid any further action. If you have any question, please contact our office. Our client reserves the right to resolve this in civil court under applicable sate law should voluntary arrangements not be made. You have failed to respond to our previous demand for payment. Our records indicate you are employed at this time. Therefore we have no choice but to assume you have no intentions of handling this matter voluntarily. In our last attempt to handle this without added expensed to your, our client has authorized a settlement….â€Â
by the way I live in California. I pulled my credit report too and this debt is not even listed on there.
Quote:Fast forward to 2008. A new collection agency acquired thi
Quote:
Fast forward to 2008. A new collection agency acquired this account. They call my house daily. They also have called my sister at her house twice looking for me. I have talked to them only twice. The first time I told them I would call them back after I did my taxes. I admit, I did not call them back because that tax money went to other bills. The second time I talked to them, on 03/31/08, I called because I wanted to set up payment arrangements. The first gentleman I talked to said it would be too late for me to make payments (I wanted to start 05/02) that they would be in court by then. But he said if I can make a payment in the next few days, they can stop the court. I said I was unable to do that and he put me on hold. Then another gentleman came on the phone saying a judgment had already been placed and there was nothing he could do. He said this twice then said if I made a pmt today, he could stop the judgment. I asked him how he could stop something he just said he couldn????????t but now he could? He began raising his voice and said I pay $100 today, $100 in two weeks then the full balance in another 2 weeks. I told him I could not do that and that????????s not what I had told the other gentleman. He said the form they sent me was a legal document (it????????s just a letter so I????????m pretty sure he was lying ???????? this is the 2nd letter they????????ve sent) and that I had 30days to pay the debt. I said it doesn????????t say that anywhere on the letter. He said it was a ???????legal??????? term and that is what the letter meant. He would never let me speak, even when I asked and was just yelling in phone that they????????d see me in court and I had to pay now and judgment papers were already on their way. Next day, the called me again. |
First and foremost, can you let us know what collection agency this is? It sounds like one that is using illegal collection tactics. Giving us the name of the company will be a big help.
Now, let's address the things he told you on the phone.
"Judgement already placed" - I doubt it. If they had attempted to get a judgement against you, you would have received papers from the court in the mail. You would have been given ample notifiction of a court date, and you would have had to NOT show up for that court date in order for them to get a default judgement against you.
"It's too late for payment arrangements -see you in court!" This sounds like a National Enterprise Systems (NES) statement. Look up this collection agency using the search engine here on the site - they're bottom feeding scum. They buy up old debt files (that either don't exist or are already paid, in most cases) and try to collect on them. Very illegal. And they're VERY fond of using scare tactics just like this one to get you to pay.
You did the right thing in reporting this company - but go one step further and contact your state's attorney general or the governing body that protects consumers in your state. Complain to them as well - make sure you tell them that this company is threatening to sue you, but apparently has no intention to - that's a huge violation of the fdcpa.
You could also see them in court by filing a civil suit for $1,0
You could also see them in court by filing a civil suit for $1,000 for their willful violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.
the ca is "the law offices of paul j coleman" based out of MA, o
the ca is "the law offices of paul j coleman" based out of MA, or at least that's the address on the letter.
I just sent them a debt verification letter and asked them to stop calling me, certified mail and return receipt.
They just called me again today. I don't even know what to say to them when I call back. Should I be getting a lawyer?
this has stressed me out so much I didn't even sleep last night.
Maybe I made a mistake but I called the ca back today. I've had
Maybe I made a mistake but I called the ca back today. I've had a judgment against me before and I didn????????t want another one.
So I called and after talking to one person, was transferred to another who identified himself as a litigator with the agency. I did get his name. He asked me basically if I was planning on taking care of this and I told him about my conversation two days before with them but he said he knew nothing of it. He said he would talk to that employee in the morning and apologized for their behavior. He said that according to their records, the last I had talked to them was Feb and I had not followed through with my agreement. He said their calls were recorded so they had record of my conversations. I said then maybe you should listen to the conversation I had on 03/31 and see what your employee said to me. I said I had already reported them to the FTC and was going to report them locally also. He said that was besides the point that there was a debt that needed to be paid. He said their employee was not using scare tactics on me. I then let him know I had sent a debt validation letter and he said that they were not legally bound to respond to that letter because 1) they were NOT a collection agency, but a law firm and law firms do not have to and 2) it had been way past the 30 days they had sent me the dispute letter so they were not going to respond to my request. I asked him, ???????So you????????re not a collection agency???????? He said ???????No, we are a law office.??????? He went on to say if you raise a lump sum over the next month, I can give you a better settlement offer than you were offered before. I said I could not do that. He said if I did not make some sort of arrangement, they would have to proceed with taking this case further. He then asked my proposal and I said $100 month, what I had asked for before. He put me on hold then came back and said they would put me on a voluntary hardship program to pay off the $2486 at $100 month. I agreed. He said he needed to get postdated payments today so that he could fax them to their client to show that I was going to pay. We set up the pay dates for the next 6months and he said I would be receiving a statement showing they would be taking out this money. I asked at the name for him to state his name and title. He said his name but he said this time he was in the litigation department (not a litigator like he stated before).
I probably made things worse by agreeing to this but at the same time, like I said, I did not want to have a judgment placed against me again. Is there anything I can do at this point? I'm trying to look up the address of the business to see if they are a law office ca but I can't seem to find anything exact.
it is The law office of paul j coleman
999 broadway suite 202
Saugus, MA 01906
Quote:he said that they were not legally bound to respond to tha
Quote:
he said that they were not legally bound to respond to that letter because 1) they were NOT a collection agency, but a law firm and law firms do not have to |
Bullsh*t! Third-party collectors are required to abide by fdcpa, period. It doesn't matter if they're attorneys, CAs, or fly-by-nights working out of their mom's basement. Or 'litigators', whatever those are. Actually, that sounds like a scary word dredged up to make unsuspecting consumers think you're a lawyer when you aren't, while [hopefully] staying clear of the spanking that goes along with unlicensed practice of law.
You may well have made things worse by aggreeing to a payment plan. We'll see what the experts say.
Question: Have you been recording all calls with these 'people'? If not, why not? I think that 'litigator' title might just turn around and bite them. A recording would be nice...
I have not been recording the calls. I looked up the law for CA,
I have not been recording the calls. I looked up the law for CA, I have to tell them I'm going to record. I don't even think I have a recorder but I'm going to pick up one tomorrow and give him a call back. is a recording the only way to catch them in their lies?
when I questioned him about not sending me a response to the dv letter, he quoted some law FTC stating they weren't required to.
Like I said, I got scared about a judgment against me.
Not sure what to think about this:http://www.pauljcolemanlaw
Not sure what to think about this:
They have a website, but it appears to be nothing but a shell. They have listings on whitepages.com as an attorney's office. I checked BudHibbs.com for their name, but they were not listed as a collection agency to avoid. A Google search turned up something interesting though:
http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-866-485-9708
You need to go to the link above and READ ALL THE NOTES POSTED THERE ABOUT THIS "LAW OFFICE".
I also found a page on Google that referenced an interesting case...something about The Law Office of Paul J. Coleman and fdcpa violations....but the page was gone when I tried to access it.
I'd like you to stop and think about something. Their other employee claimed a judgement had already been placed against you. He yelled at you and claimed judgment papers were on their way. He said it was too late for payment arrangements - yet they keep trying to get you to set up payment arrangements. I wouldn't let these guys fool you - even if they are hiding behind some lawyer's name, they ARE acting as a collection agency. They've accomplished their purpose - getting you to agree to a payment arrangement by strong-arming you into it with legal threats.
Did you give this company your bank account info? If so, my advice would be to cancel any and all debits from your bank account, report this company not only to the FTC, send a complaint to your state's attorney general by phone if possible - talk to someone in their office and explain what this "law office" is trying to do. It appears they are very busy trying to scam people lately.
Recording isn't strictly necessary, but it is convenient and foo
Recording isn't strictly necessary, but it is convenient and foolproof. You'll have to tell them if you're taping, which kinda ruins the surprise, IMHO. You can get by with accurate, detailed notes, if you have to.
Quote:
when I questioned him about not sending me a response to the dv letter, he quoted some law FTC stating they weren't required to. |
Like I was saying, I think he's blowing smoke up your ****. Sure, it tickles, but it has no other redeeming value. Give it a day or so and see what the other regulars say, but I think I'm right on this. Or PM LawStudent. He knows what's what with California law and fdcpa.
[color=Red]****Adult term removed - Jason[/color]
I guess I wasn't thinking. I did give them account info but it's
I guess I wasn't thinking. I did give them account info but it's not my main account. It's an empty account at another bank (not my primary) that I use when I order things online, etc. Should I go ahead and stop debits coming out of it? They 'said' the wouldn't debit the account till April 30th.
I'm going to contact the DA's office tomorrow. I have already filed a complaint with the FTC but I need to call and update them with more information. Should I go to see a lawyer? If so, what type?
They said a number of other interesting things, too, didn't they
They said a number of other interesting things, too, didn't they? Block the debits. NSF fees are no laughing matter.
np wulf! Glad to help out. I just was searching all over for
np wulf! Glad to help out. I just was searching all over for any info on this scumbag, and lookie what popped up on the 800 number registry...loads of complaints...all recently dated!
Their modus operandi seems to be:
-buy an old debt file (possibly paid off, but almost certainly out of SOL)
-call debtor, claim to be a law office
-threaten to sue, claim judgement will be placed if payment is not made
-if debtor protests or claims debt is not theirs, start yelling & using strongarm tactics to "persuade" the debtor to give up their bank account info & agree to weekly or biweekly debits from their bank account
and their final step....
-laugh all the way to the freakin' bank with YOUR money.
And you want a consumer lawyer. Try naca.net as a starting point
And you want a consumer lawyer. Try naca.net as a starting point, for a list.
And YES, BLOCK THOSE DEBITS. Stop these creeps in their tracks.
And YES, BLOCK THOSE DEBITS. Stop these creeps in their tracks.
Like I said, if you really want to pay that debt, do it with the original creditor - not a collection agency - especially not this one, who is likely adding a hefty percentage to the balance to pad their pockets.
If they continue to call you, start recording the calls - tell them when you pick up the phone that you are recording it - I'll bet they hang up and stop calling - or even better yet - they yell, curse, threaten to take you to court and claim to be "litigators" - then you've got them.
Not my money, Sue. Remember who you're talking to here... Bu
Not my money, Sue. Remember who you're talking to here... 
But it chaps my Wulfish ass to see them pull this crap on
ok. i'm putting a stop on debits from the account. wulf, thanks
ok. i'm putting a stop on debits from the account. wulf, thanks for the info on what type of lawyer. there's none in my area from that site. i'm going to check the phone book.
what a mess i'm in!
Hey, many of us have been in that mess before you. And some were
Hey, many of us have been in that mess before you. And some were much deeper into it than you are. There is hope, and you've got us as backup.
Check my sig for an important message about validation.
I contacted the california DA and filed a complaint about the ca
I contacted the california DA and filed a complaint about the ca and tomorrow I'll contact the Mass DA and file a complaint also. I've contacted some lawyers and I'm just waiting for a callback.
First, I would close the account. Second, Paul Coleman is NO
First, I would close the account.
Second, Paul Coleman is NOT licensed to practice law in California. So any judgement would not have been obtained by them. Check with your local and I mean local (as in your County) court and see if there was any case filed against you.
Third, the Statute of Limitation in Cal is 4 years so when was the last time you made a payment on this account.
In addition to complaining to your DA you should also file compl
In addition to complaining to your DA you should also file complaints with your state Attorney General's office and the Federal Trade Commission.
Cellular, last time I paid on this account was 11/2003. I just c
Cellular, last time I paid on this account was 11/2003. I just checked with the county court, no case has been filed against me. JCEMT I meant to say I the Attorney General, not the DA. I just filed with the Mass AG and filed a few days ago with the FTC.
If the last time you paid on this account is in 03 then the debt
If the last time you paid on this account is in 03 then the debt is beyond the statute of limitation.
So you are in the driver seat regarding this debt. Send them a validation letter stating that the SOL has expired and if they will provide the legally mandated info you will then and only then consider the validity of their claim.
I talked to a lawyer today. He laughed as I was telling him the
I talked to a lawyer today. He laughed as I was telling him the story (especially when I got to the part of how they said they wouldn't validate my debt because they are a "law" office) and directed me to a lawyer who could help me deal with this collector. I'll be glad when this is over. He gave me some good info that lets me sleep at night. Time to go put the stop payment on my account or close it all together.
basically he said if they sue me, I tell the judge the SOL on this case has passed and then countersue them. He also said Mass has some strange laws when it comes to debt collection within their own state (that takes place of the federal debt collection laws) but as soon as they try to collect outside of Mass, they have to abide to the federal laws. Since I'm in California, their Mass laws don't apply to me. Lastly, he said a lot of lawyers own CA, but they have no idea what "their" CA's are doing. He said if this is indeed a lawyers office, once the lawyer found out this fiasco, this whole thing will end. Question, should I contact the Mass bar and report this "lawyer"?
Okay, I just found out the last time I paid on this account was
Okay, I just found out the last time I paid on this account was 04/23/2004 (I called the credit counseling Svc I used to deal with). This makes the account not passed the SOL. What can I do if anything? I have not received the green slip that states the ca received my dv letter. I'm going to check online when I got home as to whether they received the letter yet.
Secondly, I received information from the AG of California and Mass. California AG just sent me a bunch of informative information on debt collection. The Mass AG said they were going to contact a mediator to work this out.
I did talk to a lawyer who said it's an issue that I sent the request for the dv letter after the 30 days. She has not taken my case yet. She instructed me to write a letter to the ca stating I was coerced into making a payment and I dispute the debt and demand proof of debt and accounting of debt and that they are not authorized to take any payment from my account.
I guess they have 12 days to file suit if they intend to do so.
I guess they have 12 days to file suit if they intend to do so. If they do file suit then just request validation during discovery, if they can't validate then motion to dismiss with prejudice.
well, now it's a waiting game to see what's going to happen.
well, now it's a waiting game to see what's going to happen.
I thought I'd post an update since this forum has been very help
I thought I'd post an update since this forum has been very helpful to me.
The CA received my dv letter with a statement to stop calling me on 04/08 and the letter that the lawyer instructed me to write that they are not authorized to take any money from my account with another request for a dv on 04/14.
So the week of 04/26 I received a phone call from the CA that went to the answering machine. The same week, I received a letter from MA Attorney General office that they had mediated the problem for me and sent me some letter stating a payment plan from the CA. Ha, I'm not agreeing to anything till I get a valid debt validation letter. So, I call the CA and tell them they had a written request from me to stop calling and that they were violating the law by calling me. They tried to say it was an automated call and they forgot to take my number off the system. then he tried to ask me about my pmts. I said I wrote a letter regarding that and I'm done with this call. He said they could fax me a dv letter I said whatever and hung up.
Today I get home and sitting on my fax are two letters from the CA (same letter twice, pretty much like the letter they sent me in the mail originally except they added that I'm paying them $100 at the end of the month) with some other original account # and other original creditor that has nothing to do with the initial letter they sent me they claim I owe. Probably they think I'll call back and say "hey, you put the wrong info down!" In fact, the original creditor they are saying they are collecting for in their so called debt validation letter, I paid that creditor in FULL and I have a receipt to prove it. As for the account number they are referring to, I have no idea. I've never had an assigned account number with that number from that creditor. They just hung themselves. I'm not calling them back. Ever. All their communication is supposed to be done with me thru the mail. I closed the account I had given them information on so I'm done with them. These fax letters are golden to me now! I'm so glad they finally made a mistake in writing!
Give them time... If they made one written mistake, they'll like
Give them time... If they made one written mistake, they'll likely make more. Document everything fully! No reason you shouldn't let them pay you for their folly.
Best of luck!
Law Office of Paul J Coleman
I'm having the same issue with this debt collector as well, only they're calling me weekly to collect on debts that belong to other people. I've filed officially with the FTC and filing with my state Comsumer Protection Agency and the Financial Regulations board. They threatened to send the sheriff to my house - which I told them that I didn't care if they did. I'm also filing a complaint with the better business bureau and MA has a Judicial Review Board for their attorneys. If this is a real attorney's office, then maybe everyone who is having issues with this company should also file a complaint with the MA Judicial Review Board.
Paul J Coleman Law Office
ebyokuri - I just contacted the MA Attorney General's office and they said that they have had no complaints with this company and their records go back to 2005. Just FYI
Micheboo, that's strange that the Maine AG said that. I have let
Micheboo, that's strange that the Maine AG said that. I have letters that I filed complaints with them. Someone also suggested to me that if they are truly a law firm to file a complaint with the Bar Association.
Crazy
My Daughter In Law just got a call from 1-866-485-9708 they left a message saying they were attnery comlans office and trying to reach my husband and that this was what they had listed as their number for him. BS. The did a people search and found she was related to her and trying to get her to give them his number. She called me and told me about it and I told her to tell them they had the wrong number and she didn't know anyone by that name. The debt they are trying to collect it out of the sol by 4 years. We are going through another on right now but they have taken us to court we have proof that the debt is past the sol but they are still trying to get judgement aginst us. The company is Jormandy llc. so watch out for them as well and people keep posting because the web is the way I found out that there was a sol for old debt. And Good Luck to all.
Lisa
Scam artists
They tried to collect a debt from me that I had paid way back in 2002 and would not take any proof I had to offer. They just called me everyday threatened me screamed and yelled and me and I hired an attorney. i called them and told them they had infractions at 1,000 a wack for calling me a lier, defaming, trying to shame me and using in appropriate langauge. Cancel your bank account and open a new one. Do not deal with them if you want to pay the debt go to your debtor check your credit report if they have written it off as bad debt and u have not paid on it in 4 years it is past the statue of limitation. send coleman associates a letter asking for full and complete disclosure, proof of debt. Have an attorney send them the letter, they will back off. Make sure you list every rule they broke listed on the Fair Credit Collection website. Believe, they are practice illegal methods. they are the ones that can go to jail not you.
Quote:1,000 a wack Fines for fdcpa violations are $1000 per
Quote:
1,000 a wack |
Fines for fdcpa violations are $1000 per action not per violation.
Quote:
if they have written it off as bad debt and u have not paid on it in 4 years it is past the statue of limitation |
SOL varies from state to state ranging from 3 years to 15. Since we don't know what state the poster is in, your comment is erroneous.
Quote:
they are the ones that can go to jail not you. |
No one would go to jail since this is a civil matter
I would suggest you spend a bit more time educating yourself before posting advice. Based on your comments, any CA you may be dealing with won't take you seriously since you're just spouting off something you read on the internet. The internet is not an oracle. Verify everything you read. Don't just take it at face value. :evil:
Not really :twisted: Just trying to keep the bad info from mis
Not really :twisted: Just trying to keep the bad info from misleading people.
The Attorney General opened an investigation of Coleman
IN THE MATTER OF PAUL J. COLEMAN d/b/a
COLEMAN & ASSOCIATES, P.C.
On May 15, 2007, the Attorney General entered into an Assurance of
Discontinuance with Paul J. Coleman d/b/a Coleman & Associates, P.C. (Coleman) of
Revere, Massachusetts. The Attorney General opened an investigation of Coleman after receiving a complaint alleging that Coleman engaged in unlawful debt collection practices. The Attorney General also determined that Coleman, a lawyer licensed in Massachusetts, was not licensed to collect debts in West Virginia. In the Assurance, Coleman agreed to comply with state and federal consumer protection laws in his future debt collection practices. Coleman also paid $5,000.00 for consumer education. There are other law suites against Paul J. Coleman still engaged in unlawful debt collection practices. I know I am having my attorney contact The Attorney General filing complaint against Coleman for unfair debt collection practices.
Re: Texas Residant, Paul J Coleman
Paul J Coleman and associates can go to jail for assault and there was an assault charges filed against the company. This company has a terrible history of very poor collection practices and false representation. That is fraud, you can be jailed for fraud. We see white color crime all the time and people are put in jail for it. SOL varies from state to state yes but I there is a chart and I have not seen 15 years on the chart. In California it is 4 years and in TN it is 4 years. I have seen up to 6 years in some states however; the clock starts ticking when the person stops paying on the card. One of the nations largest debt-collection firms will pay 1.5 miilion to settle Frederal Trade Commission charges that it violated the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) by reporting inaccurate information about consumer accounts to credit bureaus. The civil penalty against Pennsylvania-based NCO Group, Inc. is the largest civil penalty ever obtained in a FCRA case. The provision helps ensure that outdated debts ???????? debts that are beyond this seven-year reporting period ???????? do not appear on a consumer????????s credit report. Violations of this provision of the FCRA are subject to civil penalties of $2,500 per violation. Therefore limitation of $1,000 per action is not correct. An individual and sue for punitive damages as well. This comes right from the FTC. Therefore you are incorrect on some of your retorts nascardevil. And the Attorney General fined Coleman more the $1,000.00. On the legal database there is a list of law suits against Paul J Coleman Associates and those fines also proceed $1,000. I would not assume the individual posting does not know what he is talking about nor would I suggest how they should gather their information. Just do what you do the way you want to do it.
Law Offices of Paul J Coleman
The individual providing the information Mr. Texas Residents suggested that the person hire an attorney. That way they can decide what the laws are that govern his or her state. There is no reason to be nasty NascarDevil. If a person owes a debt pay it and pay it fairly if they do not owe the debt they have the rights provided them under the FTC and other orginazations that monitor 3rd level collection companies. Texis residents should be familar with Paul J Coleman as I did take the suggestion and look up filings and their are many Texas residents who have filed suit against that company for unfair collection practices. People should be treated with respect. Its easy to see from reading this board there are many good people willing to pay their debt, they just want to be treated with respect and treated fairly. There are others who have been victimized through the system by firms that break the rules and harass individuals to the breaking point. See FTC as they do talk about harassment to the point of physically affecting the well fair of a individual and family. No one should have to pay a debt that is not there dept. and no one should have to pay a debt to a company that really doesn't represent the prior creditor.
Quote:I have not seen 15 years on the chart. Kurt657.....look
Quote:
I have not seen 15 years on the chart. |
Kurt657.....look at KY and OH - 15 year SOL on Written accounts...IA, IL, IN, LA, MO, WV, WY - 10 year SOL on Written accounts. TN has a 6 year SOL not 4
Quote:
Violations of this provision of the FCRA are subject to civil penalties of $2,500 per violation. Therefore limitation of $1,000 per action is not correct |
I never said anything about the FCRA, which is $2000 per violation not $2500, I stated that fdcpa violations were $1000 per action not violation.
Quote:
Attorney General fined Coleman more the $1,000.00 |
That's an AG NOT a consumer. The AG has greater standing to fine businesses operating in his state. We're talking about an individuals private right of action, not the right of a State to take action.
Again, I stand by my previous comments. Don't take everything you read on the internet as Gospel.
No TN SOL is 4 Years
That statue of limitation was confirmed to me by the Attorney General of TN and it is 4 years. Take your own advise and don't believe everything you read on the internet or in the news paper. I've gotten my information directly from court documentation or speaking with the law makers or justices. As I said contact an attorney in your state to confirm any information. The laws are different for the Original Creditor then they are for bottom feeding 3rd part collectors.
Statue of Limitation
I believe you are looking at the SOL for written contracts, the Open accounts (including credit cards) SOL is KY 5 years OH 5 year SOL on IA is 6 years, IL 5 years, IN 6 years, LA 3 years, MO 5 years, WV 5 years, WY - 8 year. TN is 4 years. Written contracts are not the same as open accounts and open accounts include credit card debt). It looked to me as I went down the list you were looking at Written Contracts. Ohio and Kentucky are only 15 years on Written Contracts and again it is does not fall under open accounts which includes credit card debt). Furthermore the courts have the authority to fine more then 1,000 per violation if they choose to rules so; they can increase fines under other damages. This is fact and it is available looking under banking rates, FTC and other information. Furthermore, you must make sure you are looking at an up-to-date chart. Peace and Harmony man there is enough grief out there in the world right now.
There are plenty of websites, including this one, that are just
There are plenty of websites, including this one, that are just flat wrong about the claim that credit cards are open accounts.
Sometimes it is hard to get your head around the words. It is easier to understand by looking at how the words came to and and the original meaning.
Most states wrote the core of their statutes in the 1800s. In those days there was no such thing as consumer debt as we know it today. A written agreement was a bank loan. An open account was going down to the general store, buying staples and putting it on your tab. It was a transaction based on personal relationships. Generally, it was just an entry in a ledger. So, when the laws of your state were written that is what was intended as an open account.
Financial instruments have changed. Most state laws have not. Today, most states consider an open account to be a transaction between two parties involving the exchange of goods and services (there may or may not be a "written document" to formalize the account relationship). This definition is consistent with what I described above. Typically, the two parties are a consumer and a merchant. So, a "store charge card" that could not be used anywhere except that store is typically an open account.
Bank credit cards do not fit that definition. Bank credit cards involve three parties -- the consumer, the merchant and the bank. The essence of the transaction is no longer the exchange of goods and services but the injection of a third party to "finance" the sale. This is especially the case where the consumer commonly uses the card at a variety of different merchants in which case it starts to look more and more like a relationship between the bank and the consumer and the merchant becomes inconsequential. Now it really starts to sound like a bank loan -- which in truth it is.
So, in my opinion, in consideration of the history of the financial instruments and actual observation of court decisions around the country, you can pretty safely conclude that a bank credit card is a written agreement.
The term 'open' gets used too many different ways and each of which has a different meaning in the context in which it is used.
An account can be either open or closed. That is a status that relates to whether or not the debt has been paid off (or otherwise not available to the consumer for use).
An account can be either open or written. That is an account type that is generally a function of the relationship between the parties and how that relationship functions. The account type will in most states determine how the debt is treated for purposes of SOL.
An account can be either open-end or closed-end. An open-end account is a revolving agreement when the balance outstanding can rise and fall and rise again subject to some pre-defined limits and conditions. A closed-end account has a predefined structure for how and when the debt will be retired (like a mortgage or an auto loan). At least one type of account has revolving features but is actually a closed-end account -- a revolving secured line of credit -- a HELOC is a good example.
So, you have three different facets of the debt -- all of which contain the word open and each of which means distinctly different things. No wonder it is confusing.
A credit card is almost always an open-end account. It is seldom an open account. And it may be either open or closed.
Those are all banking definitions -- some of which are recognized in the laws of a particular state. In the end, all that counts is how the statutes of one's state define these various terms. A few states have actually modernized their statues to the degree that the term "credit card" is used. So far as I know, most states have not.
In the end, you have to look at case law on a state by state basis. Sometimes it is difficult for creditors to establish these written documents as written contracts for purposes of limitation of actions because they may not always conform to the required elements of a written agreement. Absent those elements, the writings associated with the open-ended credit accounts may be treated by courts as verbal, unwritten, or open agreements for purposes of limitation of action - not because they are, but because the poorly structured writings do not meet the required elements of a written agreement.
In regards to damages under the fdcpa. My earlier post was in re
In regards to damages under the fdcpa. My earlier post was in response to the FDCPA violations were " $1000 a wack" comment made by a previous poster. I am not arguing the fact that a judge could award more than $1000 but the consumer first has to prove actual damages (denial of credit, higher interest rates, etc) as a direct result of that particular CA's actions. If you are successful, then the judge could award up to $1000 for FDCPA violations, attorneys fees, and actual damages. The hard part is proving the actual damages.
The rule where? Would be up to the judge in the OP's jurisdicti
The rule where? Would be up to the judge in the OP's jurisdiction.