Debtconsolidationcare.com - the USA consumer forum

Forums
  • Latest topic

Need Help and Advice With Collector - Please!

Date: Thu, 09/08/2011 - 21:08

Submitted by jer_mc
on Thu, 09/08/2011 - 21:08

Posts: 20 Credits: [Donate]

Total Replies: 48


Hello,

I'm sorry to say I can't keep this short. My wife and I have been trying very hard to get all our consumer debt paid off. At this point, we have paid off almost $20,000 in credit cards and loans. All we have left is our car, student loan, and house......or so we thought. About 3 weeks ago I received a notice in the mail from a collector called BAM and Associates, LLC in Irvine, CA. Has anyone heard of them?

This is the first notice I've received from this company. Let me give you a quick idea of what this notice looks like. First thing I noticed is that it says "Re: BAM AND ASSOCIATES, LLC vs. 'MY NAME' (removed)". Next, instead of an account number is states "Case No. KLXXXXXXX" (again, removed). Third, right in the middle of the page, about 1/3 of the way down it states "LITIGATION NOTICE". The notice goes on to state that I have chosen to ignore their previous attempts to resolve this matter - remember, this is the first time I've received anything from them. It states, "You are hereby notified that a recommendation to file a lawsuit to collect this debt may be the next step resulting in a judgment entered against you.". It tells me what methods they may be able to use to collect on such a judgment as well as the interest rates involved. Then it states, "If you want to avoid any further legal action, (In my opinion, implying that some sort of legal action has already taken place.) you need to contact our office within 10 days of this notice; otherwise, we will assume you do not intend to pay this debt and litigation will be commenced immediately." It is then signed by one of their Legal Administrators. The back of the form is completely blank. Nowhere is there any statement about my rights to request validation within 30 days. Only statement on the form is "This communication is an attempt to collect a debt and any information obtained will be used for that purpose."

Keep in mind, we have been paying our debts off. Some of them have been paid in full, some have been settled. I've dealt with collectors in the past. To some, this may be scary, but not to me. So, I pick up the phone and call the Legal Administrator listed. I tell him that I am investigating his claim and I need to know who the original creditor is. He tells me that it is Citibank. I advised him that the only Citibank account I had was paid off over four years ago. He states that he has a balance of over $1800 and "I can voluntarily pay it now to avoid litigation". A few days pass and I call him back. I ask him for the original account number to continue my investigation into this claim. He first tells me that he doesn't have it. Only after I laugh in his ear does he provide it. After doing so I remember an old, old account that I had w/Citibank years ago. I take this new info and dig through what statements I kept and come up with two collector notices pertaining to this account. One April, 2005 and the other from May, 2005. I know I haven't made any payments on this account since before those two statements. Also, I pulled my annual credit reports from all 3 agencies about a month ago and this account doesn't show on any of them. The SOL in my state on open/revolving accounts is 5 years so I feel confident that any suit brought against me will not succeed. However, armed with only the two collector statements and my most recent credit reports I'm unsure if I have enough evidence to make that defense stick.

On 9/7 I sent them a debt validation letter asking them for many things including proof that the SOL has not expired. We'll see what comes back. Based on this lengthy bit of info, does anyone think that this collector violated the FDCPA by the way their LITIGATION NOTICE is constructed and flat out threatening to sue me on a debt that is past SOL if I don't contact them within 10 days. My wife was quite upset when I got home the day it was delivered. Only after I called and spoke with them and then explained to her it must be a mistake because we had paid off the Citibank card did she calm down (of course this is an old account I had forgotten about). BTW, the original debt listed on the two statements from 2005 is approx $280.00 and now it's over $1800. Is that inflated just to attempt to get more money from me?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!


It appears, from your statement of the history, that the debt collector did send you a collection (dunning) notice, and you did not then require debt validation within the 30-day period prescribed by FDCPA 809(b), so resumption of their collection activities does not appear to be barred under FDCPA 809(b). Their lack of reporting to a CRA is not an issue, as they had no requirement to have done so. That has been to your advantage, not disadvantage.

It is not per se illegal for a debt collector to use intent to sue as a means to collect the debt. Under FDCPA 807 (5), it is illegal for them to represent an intent to sue if they cant legally take such action, or dont actually have the intent to do so. You would have to show that they had no intent to take legal action at the time they made that representation. Kinda a tall order to prove lack of intent.

Expiration of SOL does not prevent them from bringing legal action. You cant ask a debt collector to determine expiration of SOL. That is a legal assertion made by the consumer at trial, and is dependent upon a showing before a judge. Debt collectors dont determine your SOL, and cant be said to lack ability to sue based on your potential legal defense against such action. If you raise an SOL defense in court and prevail, the case will be summarily dismissed by the judge without going into its merits, so whether or not you owe the debt is not something that will even be addressed by the court. Expiration of SOL makes it legally uncollectible regardless of any determination of its legitimacy.

I dont see an FDCPA violation in the scenario you describe.


lrhall41

Submitted by Lian on Fri, 09/09/2011 - 03:23

( Posts: 234 | Credits: )


With plenty of respect to Lian, I am going to have to disagree with that post.
Quote:


It appears, from your statement of the history, that the debt collector did send you a collection (dunning) notice, and you did not then require debt validation within the 30-day period prescribed by FDCPA 809(b), so resumption of their collection activities does not appear to be barred under FDCPA 809(b). Their lack of reporting to a CRA is not an issue, as they had no requirement to have done so. That has been to your advantage, not disadvantage.


Hang on there, you are assuming that the collection notices he received in 2005 were from this same debt collector. This is really not very likely, as debt collectors do not want to sit on an account this long. This is why accounts are bought and sold so many times--a CA will spend a certain amount of time on the account, if they cannot make any headway on it, they sell it to a junk debt buyer. And BAM sounds like a JDB to me. The only way that the 30 day issue applies here is if those notices from six years ago were sent by this same debt collector. Chances are good that they are not.

Quote:
It is not per se illegal for a debt collector to use intent to sue as a means to collect the debt. Under FDCPA 807 (5), it is illegal for them to represent an intent to sue if they cant legally take such action, or dont actually have the intent to do so. You would have to show that they had no intent to take legal action at the time they made that representation. Kinda a tall order to prove lack of intent.


While this is correct, the fact is this--legally speaking, once the SOL expires, then a lawsuit is not an option. The fact that they threatened to sue on a time-barred debt IS an FDCPA violation. That is the entire reason for the laws about SOL--remember this now--these are LAWS. If you try to sue someone when the SOL has passed, then you are acting against a LAW. And the FDCPA specifically prohibits threatening any action that is against a law.

Quote:
Expiration of SOL does not prevent them from bringing legal action.


It is supposed to do exactly that, yes. The fact that many debt collectors ignore it doesnt change the scope or the intent of the law itself. And that is what comes into play in this issue.

Quote:
You cant ask a debt collector to determine expiration of SOL.


This is also false, on several levels. Think about the FCRA--a debt collector can report a debt on your credit report. As a "furnisher of information" they are ABSOLUTELY required to determine when the SOL starts on a debt. And while the FCRA doesnt apply specifically in this case because the CA didnt report on his credit, the law is still what the law is. Remember this too--the burden of proof most definitely is on them as the would-be plaintiff, so yes, you CAN ask them to do so, and you SHOULD. But you should also not rely on their claims either if possible.

The broke the law. They never should have threatened to take action in a manner that is time-barred.

Quote:
That is a legal assertion made by the consumer at trial, and is dependent upon a showing before a judge.


Again, this is incorrect. This is more than just a legal assertion made at trial. The reason why it shows up so often as a legal assertion at trial is because the CA's violate the law in order to get to trial. If it were not the law as I am telling you it is, then there would be no basis for that "legal assertion at trial" to be cause for immediate dismissal of the cases. When you invoke SOL as a defense, what you are saying to the court is "Your Honor, the plaintiff in this case filed this suit in violation of this state's laws because they filed suit against me on this debt after the law has said they can no longer do so". Pointing out that a law has been violated, which is what SOL defense is, is not just a "legal assertion". If the law had not been broken in the first place there would be nothing to assert.

Quote:
Debt collectors dont determine your SOL, and cant be said to lack ability to sue based on your potential legal defense against such action.


They do not determine it but the law makes them responsible for knowing it. Thats a fact.

Quote:
If you raise an SOL defense in court and prevail, the case will be summarily dismissed by the judge without going into its merits, so whether or not you owe the debt is not something that will even be addressed by the court.


This is because the SOL is a law. And whenever a third party debt collector violates ANY LAW in the course of trying to collect a debt, they have violated the FDCPA. At the same time, if they threaten to take any action that violates ANY LAW, they are violating the FDCPA. The FDCPA makes no distinction as to what law they can break vs what law they cannot--it states that they cannot take or threaten to take any action that violates laws.

Quote:
Expiration of SOL makes it legally uncollectible regardless of any determination of its legitimacy.


This is also incorrect. Expiration of SOL only means they cannot sue you to try to collect. The debt is not called legally uncollectable...they just cannot resort to suing you to try to collect it. They can still contact you, send you letters demanding payment, etc etc.

Again, I have much respect for you and your knowledgeable posts, Lian, I just wanted to clear this up so that our members have the correct information. The law does not have to state a penalty for its violation in order for the FDCPA to say "debt collectors cannot break that law". The exact wording of the FDCPA tells the story on this one. Look in section 807, there are two points specifically noted that apply. First, a CA cannot take any action or threaten to take that action if the action is not legal. Second, a CA cannot misrepresent the amount, character, or legal status of any debt. So, when a debt collectors says "we are going to sue you, and you will have to pay this much interest, these legal fees, etc etc", which is what happened in this case, they have misrepresented the legal status of the debt as "within legal SOL". Make no mistake, these CAs know how old the debts are, they know when they were opened.


lrhall41

Submitted by skydivr7673 on Fri, 09/09/2011 - 05:51

( Posts: 2036 | Credits: )


great post as always skydiver,but a few things distrub me on this.i need some more info from the OP.

1)do you have a number for this bottomfeeder as i found nothing with a google search
2)you said your SOL was 5yrs for your state.i'm guessing you are in CA right?

you see even if this place had legal right to sue they would have to do it in your city,county,village,or bourough.you seem to have done your footwork OP,but again i suspect either a bottomfeeder using a legit business name,or just another bottomfeeder that needs to use verbage to collect on a "time barred"debt.please try to provide a number because again nothing regarding collections came up with a google search of the name BAM AND ASSOCIATES.i suspect bottomfeeding scum here.


lrhall41

Submitted by paulmergel on Fri, 09/09/2011 - 06:19

( Posts: 15514 | Credits: )


Bottom line is, these guys are probably trying to collect on an old debt and my guess is that they won't be able to produce validation. From my research they are scumbags and in hiding. They don't have a website, and when asked about their location and actual business, they are vague and either refuse to answer questions or suggest that you speak with their supervisor. And, yes, they do buy bad debt.

They claim that they are a "Legal Firm" - what's that? If it was an actual law firm, they would refer to themselves as a law firm. They also claim to have attorneys on staff. The fact that they don't have a website, and they're extremely vague with their answers is probably enough to put your mind at ease. I doubt they'll be able to come after you for anything. So, for now sit back and wait for that validation, which will likely never arrive. If it does (again, I highly doubt you will receive anything from these morons), then you can start looking into SOL and FDCPA violations. Or, if you're angry that they're trying to scam you, and you're so inclined, and want to put the effort into it now, go for it.

Either way, below is some address information I was able to dig up.

BAM Group
7515 W.Encanto Blvd.
Phoenix, AZ 85001


lrhall41

Submitted by mariemegge on Fri, 09/09/2011 - 07:09

( Posts: 168 | Credits: )


Thanks for all the replies.

To show the same respect for the second reply, I may have been unclear. This is the first notice that I recieved from this collection agency. Actually, when questioned on it, he admitted to me that they bought the debt from one of the agencies who sent me a notice in 2005. Does this mean that this collector is in violation of the FDCPA? Also, since I requested the information on the SOL from him, does he have to provide to me this information? Does anyone have any idea how I can get this directly from Citibank? Will they give it to me and do they care about resetting the SOL if I talk to them since they've sold the debt? I don't have any of the statements from them, and even if I did, how could I prove that they were the last statements and no payments were paid after?

The information that I have, directly from the notice, is BAM and Associates, LLC. 4521 Campus Dr, Ste 282, Irvine, CA 92612. Telephone is 800-303-5033, fax 714-975-9955. This is the address where the DV letter was sent. Also, my state is WV, not CA. I have researched online the SOL in WV and get two answers, 10 years (based on written contracts) and 5 years (based on verbal/open accounts). I decided that 5 is most likely correct after doing a search for lawyers who handle these types of cases and a prominant WV law firm who handles FDCPA cases state on their website that the SOL for credit card cases is 5 years. Assuming since they do this for a living in this state they are correct.

Next, if sued, I certainly will counter with the violations I believe they have committed. Generally it is my understanding that if the creditor feels you have a solid case and know what you're doing then they will dismiss. How can I force them to remove the debt and NOT sell it to someone else if I countersue? Is that possible? I'm really not trying to get their money, however, I don't want them to drop this only because they jerked the wrong chain only to have to do this again and again. If I counter, does that give me some leverage to put this thing to bed?

Thanks!


lrhall41

Submitted by jer_mc on Fri, 09/09/2011 - 07:35

( Posts: 20 | Credits: )


Quote:

This is the first notice that I recieved from this collection agency.


In that case, I would be contacting them in writing and disputing the debt--send them a certified letter requesting full and proper validation in accordance with the FDCPA. This is supposed to do one of two things--they are supposed to either stop all collection activity, obtain validation from the original creditor, send it to you, and only then can they start trying to collect again...OR, they are to stop all contact and leave you alone. Those are the two legal options they have. Incidentally, I am a wise guy, so if it were me, my letter to them would point out that they are already in violation of the FDCPA because they are required to provide you with a disclosure of rights within 5 days of initial contact and they did not do so.

Quote:
Actually, when questioned on it, he admitted to me that they bought the debt from one of the agencies who sent me a notice in 2005. Does this mean that this collector is in violation of the FDCPA?


No, no violation there.

Quote:
Also, since I requested the information on the SOL from him, does he have to provide to me this information? Does anyone have any idea how I can get this directly from Citibank? Will they give it to me and do they care about resetting the SOL if I talk to them since they've sold the debt? I don't have any of the statements from them, and even if I did, how could I prove that they were the last statements and no payments were paid after?


The short answer is no, they are required to validate the debt when it is disputed. But they are not specifically required to provide you with the age of the debt. Generally speaking, information on when the debt was originated, when it became past due, etc etc, is typically a part of proper validation anyways, but if you specifically ask for SOL info, the law does not require them to provide that. As for Citibank, they are not going to be able to help you. They sold this debt long ago and they will not have any records on it today. And no, the SOL clock cannot be restarted simply because you contacted someone to ask about a debt. At this time, I would not worry about proving the age of the debt, because the debt collector is the party that has the burden of proof upon them. Dispute it, request validation by sending them that certified letter, and see what they send you. Oh, and when you do that, do not send that long, drawn out letter that is all over the internet....all you really need to do is identify yourself and the debt in question(use any account numbers they have listed on the letter to do that), and then say something like:


Quote:

To Whom it May Concern:

This shall serve as your notice that I hereby dispute your claims of indebtedness for the above-identified account. Please provide full and proper validation in accordance with section 809 of the FDCPA. You may provide a copy of this full and proper validation to the mailing address listed below once you receive it from the original creditor. As I know you are aware, you are bound by the FDCPA to cease any and all collection effort until such time that you provide said validation to me. Thank you for your cooperation.

Respectfully,

(your name and address)


Quote:
The information that I have, directly from the notice, is BAM and Associates, LLC. 4521 Campus Dr, Ste 282, Irvine, CA 92612. Telephone is 800-303-5033, fax 714-975-9955. This is the address where the DV letter was sent. Also, my state is WV, not CA.


OK, so I see that you already sent a DV letter. I hope you sent it certified mail so you can prove you sent it. When I did a search on the phone number I found a BBB report for them at a different address:

http://www.la.bbb.org/business-reviews/Collection-Agencies/BAM-Financial-LLC-in-Fountain-Valley-CA-100104793

The address listed there is an apartment complex, I verified this through Google Earth. The address you have for them is actually a Mailboxes Etc store, which means that this company is using a post office box at that store as their mailing address.

Quote:
Next, if sued, I certainly will counter with the violations I believe they have committed. Generally it is my understanding that if the creditor feels you have a solid case and know what you're doing then they will dismiss. How can I force them to remove the debt and NOT sell it to someone else if I countersue?


Well, first of all, I dont see these guys suing you. They are quite shady in the way they do things. But if they did, generally I would countersue for violations. In the process, such a court case would basically turn into negotiations--they might offer to cease all collection if you agree to withdraw your counterclaim, etc etc. A countersuit that is valid provides you with leverage. With clowns like these guys, though, if they think you might sue them for their violations, and they know you have a good case, often they blink first.


lrhall41

Submitted by skydivr7673 on Fri, 09/09/2011 - 11:38

( Posts: 2036 | Credits: )


Many things Lian said contradict what I read in every forum I???ve been. You always send a Request to collection agency asking them to validate the debt they pretend you owe. ???Expiration of SOL does not prevent them from bringing legal action??? certainly but then you file a motion with the court to dismiss based on the fact that their claim is not legitimate. You should have gotten a lawyer long time ago, don???t try to deal with that mess alone. Once you sent your DV in certified mail and never got proof that the debt is legit you should refer them to your lawyer for further action. Once your lawyer starts handling the case you???ll go with him through all the violation committed by the Collection Agency to file a countersuit.


lrhall41

Submitted by mbengue39 on Mon, 09/12/2011 - 19:25

( Posts: | Credits: )


Was your letter from BAM and Associates? I sent a DV letter certified. I recieved the confirmation back. No the collector has called and my wife answered wanting to speak with me. She asked if he received my letter and he stated that he has. I'm not sure what there is to talk about until he can validate the debt. Mine is past SOL so I'm treading very carefully here. Double check the dates on yours and make sure the debt is legit. I'm kinda new to this so it's all I have right now.

I do have a feeling that this group is shady, though.


lrhall41

Submitted by jer_mc on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 09:09

( Posts: 20 | Credits: )


I too received one of these letters which really puzzled me as declared bankruptcy
last year and haven't had a credit card since 2003. So, pissed off I called that number on the "notice" and left a messages asking why they were calling etc....Then I checked all my credit reports (which also have a fraud alerts on it) and they were clean as a whistle! I'm not leaving any more messages and they can bite my butt!
These guys are just trying to get credit card or more personal info from you so they can start using your credit card. Don't fall for it. I am putting in a complaint asap with the BBB...Also I am going to mention the psychological stress it put on me. Please remember to write down everytime they call you whether they leave a message or not. Also, keep a record when you call them.
Do not give them any information. If there is re-incarnation I hope these people come back as a much used, park latrine.:mad:


lrhall41

Submitted by melodyellis on Wed, 09/28/2011 - 16:49

( Posts: | Credits: )


I just opened my mail today and pretty much verbatim, received the same "Litigation Notice" letter from BAM Financial, LLC. By you saying Citibank, it jogged my memory to a credit card I had over TEN YEARS AGO!! While I know the SOL is completely over and the last CA that had this account about 8 years ago couldn't validate anything and it was compeltely removed from my CR, I'm still going to send a DV.

BTW, same Irvine address. No account number, justg a Case No., which cracks me up because we're not even in the same state. I believe I'm being sued when I get an actual court summons. ;)


lrhall41

Submitted by Mrsmac on Thu, 10/20/2011 - 23:40

( Posts: | Credits: )


Ok, so I sent the DV letter well over a month ago with no response to it. The only thing I have gotten is a few phone calls to my wife's cell phone with the agent asking to speak with me ASAP. In the first phone call she asked him if he received my letter and he stated he had. Yesterday he called again so I thought I'd humor him and see what he wanted. With my voice recorder in hand I called him back. He started by saying that I had an old Visa card that I was late on. He said he has tried multiple times to get me to voluntarily pay this debt. I interrupted and asked him if he received my letter. He said he had not and I informed him that I have a return receipt that states he has and would be more than happy to send a copy to him. He said that wouldn't be necessary, he believes me and then he said, "let me check your case". Literally within 1-2 seconds he said, "Oh, there it is". I told him that it's been well over 30 days since I sent my letter and he said they may be waiting on the response from the original creditor. He said he'd call me when he had it and I told him I'd rather he mail it to me. His whole demeanor changed when he knew I had sent the letter certified with return receipt. I know he saw the letter when he called. Hopefully I won't hear from him again.

With this info and the info above in previous posts, has this JDB violated FDCPA and would I have a case against him in your opinions?

Thanks!


lrhall41

Submitted by jer_mc on Tue, 10/25/2011 - 10:32

( Posts: 20 | Credits: )


FDCPA violations? Yes. Can you sue? Probably, but honestly I don't know what you would stand to get out of it. That being said, I'm all for taking it to the limit, if you have the desire and time. Keep us posted!


lrhall41

Submitted by mariemegge on Tue, 10/25/2011 - 10:52

( Posts: 168 | Credits: )


Thanks for the great info! I don't think I'll sue first but will definitely use this in the unlikely event that they sue me. This debt is past the SOL.

I was wondering, however, is there anyway I can use these violations to force the JDB to cancel this debt? The debt was originally only $250 or so and now they're claiming it's up to $1800. Rediculous. Anything I can do to make this go away so it's not sold over and over would be great.

Thanks!


lrhall41

Submitted by jer_mc on Wed, 10/26/2011 - 07:24

( Posts: 20 | Credits: )


I worked in the commercial collections/financial resolution biz when there was still a shred of integrity in it, but no more....

I recently was forwarded an example of BAM's so-called notice from a relative of mine....a first cold contact claiming to be a second or subsequent hit by using the phrase:

"You have chosen to ignore our previous requests"
....or some such BS...:roll:

[LEFT]Back in the day, we only dealt in "kickbacks" - that is, debt that was still owned by the OC but assigned to us for collection. We recieved a physical paper file, will all pertinent documentation Only after a certain investigatory period, was the file returned to the OC with a litigate or charge-off recommendation.

Today, stale debt or "zombie debt" is often nothing more than a computer CD with a minimum of information. Each time these uncollectables "make the rounds" - that is, being sold to other agencies - the bundle loses some it's resale value each time simply because the accounts are fast approaching the legal limit. So you can bet that by the time a little-bottom feeder gets ahold of the bundle at a bargan-basement price, dollars to donughts the SOL has been reached.

Curious to know how they got your current address?

If the bundle is computerized, these guys will most likely perform a little-know tactic called "skimming" - where, for a modest fee - CRA's will skim the headers from the CR's in question (name, current address, etc.) and provide these to the CA's without the costs and hassle of a hard pull. Small-time operators simply do not have the resources to eyeball and match a CR to every name in the bundle (10,000 or more) to determine if further action is warranted.

Fishing - aka mass mailings (as opposed to phishing) was and still is a cost-effective way to attempt a catch when exploiting imminent or actual time-barred debt.

By the way, these guys lost a lot of their credibility when I saw the envelope the letter came in - I mean, who licks actual stamps anymore?:p

These clowns are so 80's - this scare tactic, also known as "blindsiding" (with the threats of legal action coupled with pseudo-legalese language in the text) worked well back then when the economy was booming and people didn't necessarily research their rights. Debtors - more often than not, paid up....but today's consumers are a lot more savvy than this....
[/LEFT]
Hope this helps!


lrhall41

Submitted by ExCollector on Thu, 10/27/2011 - 23:43

( Posts: | Credits: )


When I opened my statement I thought that I had missed some previous letters from this CA. Not so, I open all my mail and this is the first time they had sent me anything. They made it sound as if they were trying to contact me over and over and this was their final step before suing.

I sent the debt verification letter on 9/7 and the received it on 9/10 according to the return receipt. About two weeks later the collector called my wifes cell phone to tell her that it was very important that I call him ASAP. During that phone call my wife asked him if he had received my letter. He stated that he had - there was his admission. After posting that info here and getting advice from experienced users I decided to ignore this waiting on the info I requested. On Monday of this week he called again with the same request that I call him ASAP. I decided to call him this time just to ensure that it didn't have something to do with the DVL. When I asked him how I could help him he stated that he was contacting me concerning the old Visa account that they are trying to collect. He stated, "We have given you an opportunity to voluntarily resolve this...." when I cut him off. I asked him if he had received my letter and he stated he had not. I told him that I had a return receipt that stated otherwise and he suddenly saw it in my 'case'. His whole attitude changed at that time and said he was still waiting on the information from the OC. My guess is he doesn't have it and can't get it. This whole thing, in my opinion, is full of FDCPA violations. Is there ANYWAY I can use this to get this old debt cancelled? It's the only debt that I have left and I honestly forgot about it because it's so old. I would like to prevent this thing from being sold over and over again.

Thanks!


lrhall41

Submitted by jer_mc on Sat, 10/29/2011 - 07:52

( Posts: 20 | Credits: )


How old is the debt? What type of debt? Date of last payment? What state do you live in?

You wont get the debt cancelled...you would have to sue for damages, especially if this is an assigned debt and the OC is still involved.

You do have $1000 in FDCPA violations for the dunning before the debt has been validated.


lrhall41

Submitted by SOAPLADY on Sat, 10/29/2011 - 08:11

( Posts: 17315 | Credits: )


Sorry for the delay, I've been working some OT and haven't been on here for a few days.

To answer the questions, I live in WV, the debt is very old and I haven't made a payment in over 5 years. The debt is an old Citibank credit card.

I spoke with this collector on 10/24. He started his speech with how he has tried to voluntarily get me to settle before I interrupted him by asking if he received the DV letter I mailed. He first said no then after informing him of the return receipt he suddenly found in in my 'case'. He said that they were still waiting on the information from the OC it appeared. He has called two times since receiving my DV letter, once I didn't answer. The phone call from 10/24 was recorded.

I sent #2 DV letter certified today. I advised in the letter that I would contact him after 15 days of his receipt if he doesn't forward the information to me. What is your suggestion that I do with the, in my opinion, misleading original dunning letter showing BAM and Associates, LLC vs 'my name', case number instead of account number, the words "to prevent further legal action" implying some legal action has already taken place, and the attempts to collect after receiving my DV letter? For some reason this guy really ticked me off and I don't want to just forget this. If I did file suit, do you think that the odds are with me that he'll offer to cancel the debt from your experience?

Thanks!


lrhall41

Submitted by jer_mc on Tue, 11/01/2011 - 21:28

( Posts: 20 | Credits: )


The SOL for WV is 5 years so you need to figure out if in fact the SOL has past. Check your credit report to figure out your date of last payment. If the 5 years has passed, I would suggest sending an FOAD letter....F*! off and DIE!! Simply tell they to get lost, that the SOL has past the the debt is time barred.


lrhall41

Submitted by SOAPLADY on Wed, 11/02/2011 - 04:49

( Posts: 17315 | Credits: )


I checked my report about two months ago and this account doesn't show on any of the three. Based on that, I'm making the assumption that the account is at least 7 years old. Is this a safe assumption?

I'm hesitant to send the FOAD letter yet as I want to gather as much evidence as I can against this collector in the off chance they attempt to file a suit. I want a strong counter-suit that I can file against them. This collector is now my new hobby, if you know what I mean.

Thanks for the info!


lrhall41

Submitted by jer_mc on Thu, 11/03/2011 - 06:55

( Posts: 20 | Credits: )


I would sue.

They've committed several violations:

[LIST=1]

  • Their first communication to you was set up to look like a legal document and would appear to be legit to a layman.
  • Their first communication with you did not include language letting you know that you have 30 days to dispute the debt or any portion thereof.
  • They've threatened to sue you for a debt that is time barred for litigation.
  • They've continued collection efforts (on more than one occasion) after receiving your request for validation.
    Sue them and collect your $1000.


    • lrhall41

    Submitted by OhioGal1 on Thu, 11/03/2011 - 07:59

    ( Posts: 5253 | Credits: )


    After taking a second look at the first dunning letter I received, it does state at the bottom "This notice is an attempt to collect a debt and any information will be used for that purpose" or something very similar. There is no mention of 30 days to dispute or anything similar.

    The fact that it does look like a legal document to a layman is what has me most irritated I think. Mentioning case numbers, using the term BAM and Associates, LLC Vs. xxxx, and stating to me "to avoid further legal action" is wrong in my opinion. Anytime I talk to them he always uses the phrase "we have tried to get you to voluntarily resolve this ....." before I interrupt him and bring him back to reality.

    How do I find out if their company is even licensed to collect in WV? I've checked the secretary of state website and the company isn't listed.

    Thanks!


    lrhall41

    Submitted by jer_mc on Thu, 11/03/2011 - 09:12

    ( Posts: 20 | Credits: )


    Hello again,

    I wanted to write about this situation with an update to get advise on what I need to do now. I received a voicemail on 2/29/2012 from BAM and Assoc stating that they were verifying my address because "papers" were being mailed to me. If I didn't call back within 24hrs they would consider the address as validated. I didn't call back because the address provided in the vm was correct and I assumed that they were finally mailing to me the debt validation I asked for a second time in November. I have received nothing, and being on a personal day, I relistened to the vm and discovered that he actually said "legal papers". To ensure that they weren't pulling a fast one I called them immediately. I asked for the individual I had been working with in the past but he's no longer available (most likely a victim of turn-over). The person I spoke with advised me that he was confused as to why I hadn't received anything, and that I should have already been served, and since I haven't, it should be coming soon either by process server, sheriff's office, etc. Tired of messing around, I asked him if he received both my requests for debt validation (which I haven't been provided). He stated to me that he couldn't see that information but I informed him that in November I was assured they had it (I sent it certified-return receipt). I informed him that him telling me that a legal process server should be serving me soon was a direct violation of the law as he never validated the debt in question. I had him on speaker since I have been recording the phone calls starting in November and suddenly he couldn't hear me anymore. I hung up and called him back and it was the same, can't hear you.

    I decided to switch phones, however it was dead so while it was charging I called my local magistrate court. I was advised by them that no case has been filed either listing me as a defendant or BAM and Assoc as a plaintiff. What do I do now? It's obvious to me (I hope I'm right) that they are violating the law. Is it time to send them a cease and desist? The debt in question is well past the SOL in my state and I've checked all three credit reports recently and there is nothing on them pertaining to this account. This company has me really angry and I want to be sure to handle this correctly.

    Thanks again!


    lrhall41

    Submitted by jer_mc on Mon, 03/19/2012 - 13:57

    ( Posts: 20 | Credits: )


    Thanks for the reply! I've never heard of NACA but it definitely looks like a good resource. Are the lawyers usually willing to help since the case is only worth $1000? I got so frustrated that I actually told the guy yesterday that he had better hope that I actually receive a summons or he was going to. He didn't like that, not sure if it was a good idea or not. Frankly at this point I don't care. I do have the last several phone calls recorded, hopefully that makes a difference too.

    The lady at magistrate court just laughed when I told her what I was told. I'm sure they hear this stuff every day. I'm lucky to live in a state where the AG actually stands up for it's residents. His website states that he filed suit against Midland, never dealt with them but see there name on here a lot.

    Thanks!


    lrhall41

    Submitted by jer_mc on Tue, 03/20/2012 - 06:43

    ( Posts: 20 | Credits: )


    working contingency means the bottomfeeder pays their fee and court costs.it doesn't matter really the dollar amount of debt,or what you sue for as you will get 1,000.00 and the lawyer gets paid by the wormslime playing collector.do it!!!!!!!!


    lrhall41

    Submitted by paulmergel on Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:15

    ( Posts: 15514 | Credits: )


    Went to their office in Irvine, one guy as the "boss" and a bunch of kids just out of high school.


    lrhall41

    Submitted by anonymous on Wed, 05/02/2012 - 17:32

    ( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


    I have received a letter like the above mentioned people. I did not even say who the original debt was with so I had no idea what was going on. Now I have started getting phone calls from these people. In their first, and only, letter it said litigation notice. I never got anything prior to this! Here is my dilemma...my debt is legit, however, I don't like these people and this seems really shady. They are not on any of my credit reports so I am not sure if they are legit. I know that I owe the original company, I am just unsure about them. Now they are threatening me with a summons. I called the original credit card company and they can't find my account. Now do i send a DV to the original company or to this BAM company? I don't want to get sued and I can't find the original letter from BAM. Can someone please help?


    lrhall41

    Submitted by anonymous on Wed, 05/09/2012 - 18:27

    ( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


    [COLOR=black]This is the first time that I have posted on a thread so I apologize if I needed to start a new one. We have been receiving calls from relatives stating that they are looking for my husband and that this is a legal matter that he has to respond to ASAP. [/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]I received a phone call for the first time today on my cell phone from a person saying his name was Mr. Williams and that he is from B.A.M. and Assoc. He didn't give me the usual this is an attempt to collect a debt......speech. He just went on to say that If I was my husband???s wife then he can talk to me about the debt. The only thing he asked me to verify is that I knew his birthday. [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=black]The first thing he said is that he needed to verify an address so he could serve my husband with papers. He has the wrong address. He went on to tell me that he purchased this debt (that was valid) and that I need to resolve this or he was going to recommend litigation. I explained to him that I needed to look up the papers on this account and talk to my husband. He immediately went on to say that I wasn't cooperating with him and that he was going to recommend litigation. Other tactics he used was to say that he was going to extradite my husband to the state where the debt originated and said "does your husband have time to take off from work?" I said "sure, he can take off." Then again he said I wasn't cooperating. After lots of threats and going back and forth he said my options are to either make a payment arrangement to pay off what they were saying the debt is now worth which is over 6 times the original debt or to come up with a settlement and pay by June 30, 2012 which is in 3 days. I again told him I would have to talk to my husband before agreeing to anything and he said he would give me 1 hour. When I told him he doesn't get home until 5pm he said if he didn't hear from me by 5pm that was recommending litigation. He said that he was also going to suggest that I be added to the lawsuit because I wasn't cooperating. He also went on to say that he was going to fax my husband???s work to let them know that they are going to be garnishing his wages and that they will be putting a second lien on the vehicle that we are making payments on. [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=black]My husband just called me saying that this person called his work twice. Once to talk to the owner and bully him in to letting him talk to my husband and a second time to talk to the accounting person about garnishing his wages. My husband is embarrassed and super pissed but his boss just laughed it all off. [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=black]Here are the specifics of our situation:[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The original debt was accrued in MI we now reside in WI[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Original debt was for $500[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The original account was opened in 1/2005[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]the original creditor charged off the account 4/2006[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The SOL in Michigan is 6 years[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]BAM says that we owe them $3198.41 and if we don't pay it we will be looking at over $5K including legal fees. [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=black]I would love to just tell this guy to jump off a cliff but I want to make sure that there isn't any legitimacy to his threats. Any suggestions are very appreciated. Sorry for the length of this post. [/COLOR]


    lrhall41

    Submitted by anonymous on Tue, 06/26/2012 - 14:59

    ( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


    First things first--MI's SOL does not apply because you live in WI now. That is the one that applies. Not that it matters in this case, they are both 6 years. So, the fact that the debt was charged off in April 2006 means that it is definitely out of statute. At this point, you can stop right there, and proceed to tell this guy where to go and how to get there....or you can do more, depending on what your intentions are.

    If it were me, I would record a phone call with this crook--in WI it is legal for you to tape the calls without telling them you are doing it. And you will have a ratehr easy time catching him violating the law again, I believe. I would record the call, and at first I would let him run his mouth--do not let on that you know what he's doing is illegal, and do not tell him youre taping. Let him bury himself in violations. Then, go to www.naca.net and hire yourself a consumer attorney that works on contingency basis and sue these criminals for the money they now need to pay you. FDCPA volations carry a maximum penalty of $1000 plus any real damages. I would also report these losers to the attorney general's offices in their state and yours.....as well as the FTC.


    lrhall41

    Submitted by skydivr7673 on Tue, 06/26/2012 - 18:05

    ( Posts: 2036 | Credits: )


    Thanks skydivr7673. I'm not too concerned any more. I have decided to not to give this scum bag any more of my attention or time. I've spent hours looking through message boards that basically say the same thing: BAM are a bunch of bullies that have no problems breaking the law and threatening people that are trying to do the right thing by cleaning up their credit.

    One thing that I forgot to mention is that the person who called had my credit report in front of him and saw that I had been making attempts to pay off credit cards.


    lrhall41

    Submitted by anonymous on Wed, 06/27/2012 - 22:15

    ( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


    he didn't have your credit report.he lied as there is no such info on your credit report.attempting to clear up your credit,or attempting to make payments doesn't show on your credit report.only accounts that are paid,current,or still delinquent.whoever told you that just threw another illegal log on their violation fire.


    lrhall41

    Submitted by paulmergel on Thu, 06/28/2012 - 05:26

    ( Posts: 15514 | Credits: )


    [FONT=Calibri]I just called these guys back today after receiving several harassing voicemails and hearing that they are calling my mom's home and job! They claimed that there was a complaint filed against me in regards to a property in the city I live in. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Calibri]I told them my name and that I wanted to know why they were calling and what this was about. The man asked me if I had been served papers today and I said no, then he put me on hold so that he could contact some dispatcher to stop the "summons" from going out. ???? Like, wtf does that mean? He left me on hold for 18 minutes, picked up and asked me how he could help me. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Calibri]I was obviously irritated so I explained again the reason for my call and gave him my info. He then tells me I owe almost $4000 dollars to Citibank. I have never opened any sort of account with Citibank so I asked if it was the original account, then he said that it may be Bank of America. I did get a bank of America cc when I was 18 (I???m 30 now) that I maxed ($300 limit) and didn't pay at the time, but I thought that I had paid it shortly after I was sent to collections, but I don't remember for sure. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Calibri]So I asked him for some kind of written proof, the original credit card number, or any kind of information so that I could verify this debt. He said that he is not in customer service so he could not provide any of that info. I asked if there was any kind of document that could be sent to validate this company and again he refused. I then said plain and simple, I won???t pay anything until I have more information. Then this ass hole tells me that I am irresponsible, that I am a liar, and yells at me saying "KNOW THE LAW BEFORE YOU BREAK THE LAW"...and HANGS UP!!! [/FONT]
    [FONT=Calibri]I couldn't believe it so I called back, get this: he answers disguising his voice to sound like a woman's voice, I say "I need to speak to the person who just rudely hung up on me!", then suddenly he's speaking again and tells me that I missed my opportunity to settle this because I was so rude (wtf???), that a police officer would be coming to my place of employment tomorrow to arrest me, and that they would be garnishing my paycheck to pay off this debt. He told me that I was going to be sorry for being so rude, and hung up again. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Calibri]I called back again and he answered and I demanded that he provide me their mailing address, his name, and my "case" number. He refused and told me that he didn't have to provide that info. I told him he was being very childish and unprofessional and he then proceeded to tell me that I was the liar, and I don't pay my bills, and you won???t believe this one...he says to me, "Do you own your own legal firm? No!! I do so who's unprofessional????? Hahahahahahahahhaha...I asked him: "what the fudge is a legal firm??" He hung up. I called back again and he threatened to send a sheriff to my house now and arrest me for harassment!!![/FONT]
    [FONT=Calibri]I am so upset about this. How can they do this to people???? They have to be held accountable in some way. This man had me shaking, I was so angry.[/FONT]


    lrhall41

    Submitted by anonymous on Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:19

    ( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


    I just got a call from this BAM group yesterday actually saying that they were summoning me to court for $4,500 debt from years ago. They claimed to have sent me stuff back in last October and this January about it, which they didn't. I gave them my new address (hope that wasn't stupid of me) and told them to send me whatever they supposedly sent because I needed to have it.

    HERE'S THE KICKER - Citibank/Citigroup actually charged this off as the IRS just dinged me for not claiming the write-off as "income" on my tax return. (I didn't know it happened so didn't know to claim it.) I have since arranged payment with the IRS to clear the amount I owe sine the new "income" changed my return amount and I owe them money on it. MY QUESTION IS: If this is written off and done through Citibank through the IRS already, is it even legal or possible for someone to come after me for the debt? That's double collecting. My thought is that BAM is shady as I can't imagine Citibank would try to illegally double dip on an amount this "small" by Citibank standards.

    I'm still waiting for the scary threatening letter I was told I was getting, but I'm going back after them both barrels blazed so to speak I'm thinking.

    Any suggestions or info?


    lrhall41

    Submitted by anonymous on Sun, 07/15/2012 - 00:12

    ( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


    Well, I sent my verification letter, however, this has not stopped these people. They still call and harass me. They call many times a day, but leave no messages. Today, they finally leave me a message. I return it and record the conversation. I asked the man if he received my verification letter. He said that it's not his job to do my homework. I told him that I want in writing what they say I owe (mind you the first letter didn't even say who the original creditor was). Again, he says that it's not his job to do my homework. He says that I don't have a problem paying off debt since I just paid off a Target account (granted, that was over 3 years ago). Again, I ask for some kind of brake down. He then said that he is going to refer me to the "litigation department" and sue me and my husband (I've been divorced for 7 years now). We go back and forth for a while, then the last thing he says is that unless I say that I'm going to pay the debt, he has nothing else to say to me. Again, I ask for verification and halfway into my sentence, he hangs up on me.
    Plainly, in my letter, I ask to not be contacted anymore, bu they've ignored my request. This is the third "24 hour notice" I've gotten from them. Never anything in writing. Looking at the other responses, looks like they are doing a blitz attack on debtors right now. These guys are pissing me off. They expect me to just fork over money and not ask questions. I know I owe the debt, but their number is twice what my credit report says I owe (they aren't even listed on my credit report, the original creditor is). I only want to pay what I LEGITIMATELY owe and they won't give me proof.
    By the other responses, looks like I have nothing to worry about, but I don't want them to keep harassing me or start to call my job. Can I do anything else to get the calls to stop? Apparently, sending letters don't work...


    lrhall41

    Submitted by anonymous on Wed, 08/01/2012 - 18:34

    ( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


    I just sent it regular certified mail. I checked online and it tells me the letter delivered. Should I send another one the way you are speaking of? I thought if I just sent it regular certified, that would be enough.


    lrhall41

    Submitted by anonymous on Wed, 08/01/2012 - 21:29

    ( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )


    You have proof that the DV was mailed and a recorded call...hopefully the recording is legal. What state do you live in?? If the recording is legal, you just made yourself $1000. You need to go to NACA.net and find a consumer attorney near you. They violated the FDCPA by not validating the debt and continuing to call you for the debt.


    lrhall41

    Submitted by SOAPLADY on Wed, 08/01/2012 - 21:43

    ( Posts: 17315 | Credits: )


    I recieved a letter from them a few months ago after they couldn't reach me on the phone. It said I owed a debt of $11000.00 and then just this month, I answered the phone and they said who they were and they needed to transfer me, I said you called me to transfer me about what? He couldn't tell me anything! I told him I was at work and didn't have time for their games. I then googled the number and found out that the one number was a cell phone in CA and the other number wasn't listed anywhere. So I ignored their calls in the future. Then I got a voice mail on my phone that says this is ____ with BAM Financial and I am calling regarding property in _________, MD. Well I don't own any property but concerened and only had been given a 24hr window to call back I called back nobody would tell me what it was regarding except that someone filed a claim against me, they told me my account was secured and he could not see the information but would leave a message for the right person to call me back. Nobody called me back like I was told until just this week and I got a call from some guy who asked for me and I said this is her what is it regarding, he said I was asked to call you and give you a number and a case number and to speak with Mr. ____, I said if they want to talk to me they can call me directly I am not and will not call that number again since it must not be that important, if they never called me back originially. Then about 2 hours later I got a call from another Unkown number and I ansewred it to find out that it had nothing to do with any property but a credit card from 2006. I was on the phone with this guy for 51 minutes and 20 seconds, while he told me about my debt, and how I refused to make arragnments and how willing I was to resolve this issue. In the middle of the call and throughout the entire call, he was rude and told me how he was going to ruin me and take me to court as well as garnish my wages. Most of which I find out later that he is not allowed to do or what he said he was going to do and how was all wrong. I am now in the process of filling a complaint with the BBB, FDCPA, States Attorney General, and contacting a lawyer in an effort to get this company off of my back. They broke many laws in the process they took. The problem with this complaint process is that unless many others complain to the FDCPA they will not investigate. Please anyone having any issues with BAM Financial file a complaint just as I did, so that we can stop this behavior.


    lrhall41

    Submitted by anonymous on Sat, 08/11/2012 - 08:32

    ( Posts: 202330 | Credits: )