Proper Debt Validation, News You can Use

Thanks Law student for the making the point on a wider scale. Most of the debt collectors pretend that putting the name and address of the borrower and the amount is enough to validate the debt. The FDCPA mentions all the points in a debt validation. But the collectors violating the laws usually don't want to give all that information.

Are junk debt buyers sued often because of them violating the laws?

LawStudent,

Thank you for the clarification. That is one thing that I had questions on. It answered some of them. I have put in some of my dv letter it doesn't refer to my name, address, etc.

Good info Law Student.Just remember Spears vs Brennan is a state case in Indiana. Another good one is Guerrero vs RJM Acq.This is a Federal Court case.

Thanks a lot for posting that information. I think that a lot of people, I for one, were unclear on what exactly debt validation means. This is invaluable!! Keep up the great work!

The problem everyone has with debt validation is it was never fully explained in the statute what exactly proves validation.The 3 cases referenced in this topic help explain it with caselaw. Another place that helps is listed below.It is the Ftc opinion letters on the FDCPA.They are not legally binding in court,but most courts do give them substantial weight since the Ftc is a regulartory agency for this statute.
http://www.ftc.gov/

Thanks for posting the Federal case Cajun. I thought you would enjoy Brennon vs Spears.

Law Student, Thanks for the Spears case.Will add it to my collection with the other files I am slowly putting together. Since you have full access to Lexis,if any more pop up on there concerning credit or collection,let me know.

Will do. In a lot of the summeries I read about fdcpa issues, the plantiffs take the collector to court for the wrong violations. For example, if a collector threatened jail, the plantiff sometimes sues on some off the wall grounds, like licensing or something.

You are correct in that statement.When representing yourself you need to know the statutes and rcp very well. I have seen this happen on fdcpa & fcra cases.There have also been a small percentage lost because their lawyer was unfamilar with the statutes.If someone has a very good case with multiple violations,I always recommend a certified consumer law attorney.

So, the fax I got the other day from A S & Associates was not proper validation? It did not have the payments made towards the account or anything. It just had my name on it and the amount I owe....

Tweety I can send you a fax saying you owe me money!By the way,where is my cash girl! They have to send you something from original creditor that shows a complete accounting of amount owed,interest,fees,and payments made.

OK, what if this jerk calls me again harassing me at work and I tell him this isnt a proper validation? How do I deal with that? I have paid rollovers to National Money Store several times..........they are illegal in Indiana....What I paid so far (rollovers) should go towards that right?

As & Asociates are collectors per fdcpa. Send them a limited communication letter to restrict contact to Us mail or email only. If they continue calling,document their calls,threats,and anything else. Once you have enough documentation,go to naca.net for referral to a consumer attorney to sue them. Since you are in Indiana,your validation is going to have to be more through than most due to the caselaw Spears vs Brennan created in your state. If I remember correctly,these people are located in Texas which means they have to follow Texas Finance code as well. Texas law gives them time limits to validate that federal doesn't.If you have not done so yet,file your complaint with the Texas Attorney general.

Cajun can you tell me what is going on with Spears VS Brennan?

That case was sent to the Indiana court of appeals and the court decided that the validation evidence was insufficient thereby raising the level of evidence needed to prove a debt in your state. The level in Indiana now exceeds what is required in most areas.

so, in other words.........have great validation info or?

or they don't get paid.

This is for all states?

The level of evidence required by that case is controling only in Indiana.It can be considered as supplemental outside of Indiana.

Cajun- I'm stupid............:( I dont get it

When looking at caselaw,you have to determine where it would be considered controlling which means since Indiana Appeals court rules on it,it is considered controling for Indiana State court system. When a case is not controling for your area,it can be added to your argument as additional evidence,but you should find some caselaw to go with it. I know it is boggling,I am just starting to understand it myself.

so, if they cant validate it properly even though u have asked for it over and over and still nothing....then u should just do the right thing and pay back the principal (PDL'S)......Even if they are not licensed in your state to even give loans?

Thank You for posting this valuable information. KYSIDE38

yes, thank you.......I dont get most of it though :)

Well if collector is not validating or violating the laws while collecting,I see no reason to give him a dime. What I would do is pick up the phone and call the original lender. Then I would ask them if they desire to be named as a codefendant in a federal lawsuit because their collector is breaking the law. I would let them know they have the option of pulling the account back inhouse for a reasonable settlement.

LOL Cajun, you really should become an attorney. I really could not have explained all that so well as you did.

I am in awe of both of you, cajun and LawStudent. You guys are so smart. I know where to come if I need help!! Thanks for everything you both do on here to help people.

:oops: I do thank yall for the kind words.All I did was bring up the theory that since it is assigned to a collector,his actions make lender liable.This also works on credit reporting cases if worded correctly.

When requesting validation of a debt...What, specifically, do you ask for to properly validate the debt? Think about this, The JDB must be able to validate every penny they claim you owe. Now think about exactly HOW this would be done? What would have to be produced in order to validate every single penny they claim you owe? They would have to produce ALL of the 'media' pertaining to the alleged debt. The word 'media' in the collection world means the ENTIRE paper trail of the debt. This includes, but is not limited to:

1. Signed contract/credit application between debtor and original creditor
- Shows proof an agreement between the debtor and original creditor
2. Copies of all signed charge slips
- Shows proof of ALL debtor authorized charges applied to the card
3. Copies of all statements from the day the account was opened until the day it was charged off.
- Shows proof of all charges and any fees applied to the account
4. If the debt was sold, a copy of the sales agreement between creditor and purchaser as well as how much the debt was purchased for must be provided
- Shows proof that the creditor has given the debt buyer a contractual right to the debt
5. If the debt is on assignment to the debt buyer (contingency), a copy of the agreement between creditor and the debt buyer must be provided.
- Shows proof that the debt buyer is working for the creditor
6. Full accounting of all payments made AFTER the account went into default.
- If payments were made on the debt to a previous debt buyer and then the debt was sold to another debt buyer, the new CURRENT debt buyer MUST provide a full accounting as to where and how those payments were applied to the debt.
7. The complete chain of evidence
- Shows the complete ???????path???????? (different JDBs who have owned it, and when) the debt has taken to get to the current debt buyer.

NOTE: I am not an attorney, this is not provided as legal advice, only what my experience has taught me...

What I call reasonable validation depends on the type of debt. For a credit card if they can produce statements and have a complete breakdown on costs,they may at that point have enough for court. I like to think of it in this way.What would a judge require before he rules in creditor's favor. The level of court evidence required is controlled by state laws in each state.

Greetings, all,

My wife and I are trying to put our house in order. I really commiserate with you all and wish you the best of luck. We will all get through it.


Very simply, can anyone recommend and put me in contact a NYC-based attorney with collections experience?

We need a little help in getting payment plans organzied.

Thank you.

They have an atty who post here under hockeyman but he's not registered. U may be able to search his name at the top and find a post he posted in and leave a message for him there... Oh btw he's from NY!
Hope this helps a little,
Ang

I'm still trying to understand what true "validation of debt" constitutes (Kansas). I am getting all these barely legible copies of barely intelligible stuff. Can anyone help me with actual documents they would be required to produce?
Thanks!!

what if the 1st time you hear about the debt is after the civil suit has been filed?? Can I still request a validation??

I've been reading quite a bit on validation and I'm getting mixed results. Some say a simple printout from the collection agency where they state it verified the account and it's right, is not enough, Spears v Brennan, Fields v Wilber, but others are citing Chaudhry v Gallerizzo, which states, "Verification of a debt involves nothing more than the debt collector confirming in writing that the amount being demanded is what the creditor is claiming as owed; the debt collector is not required to keep detailed files of the alleged debt. Consistent with the legislative history, verification is only intended to ???eliminate the problem of debt collectors durning the wrong person or attempting to collect debts which the consumer has already paid???. There is no concomitant obligation to forward copies of bills or other detailed evidence of the debt???.

So, if I sent my letter in the first 30 days and disputed the account, and they sent me letter back with just the name of the OC and now an overly inflaited amount due, is that or is that not enough validation. If they don't have to provide more than just a simple sheet they printed up, couldn't I just sue everyone and do the same thing?