About collection agencies
Date: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 17:04
Submitted by Morningstar
on
Sun, 03/25/2007 - 17:04
Total Replies: 190
When collectors are trained, many call centers require that the agent not give up control of the call. They are trained to be assertive, demanding, and to talk over the debtor during an argument. They are also taught to refer back to any and all possible consequences of non compliance. It is illegal for them to threaten any action they do not intend to or cannot take (a common, illegal threat is to prosecute the debtor for fraud).
Collection agencies are not permitted to call excessively, although the law likely differs from an individual’s opinion as to the definition of excessive. Should you tell a collector that you are going to try to obtain the money in the next few days; the collector will schedule a callback. If you do not call back, the collector will do so starting from the scheduled time/date, and continue for approximately a week. If you have made a promise to pay an amount, the collector will again set a callback time/date. In the event the money is not received and you have not contacted the collector, they will conduct follow up calls, as frequently as twice a day for up to a week. Telling a collector over the phone to stop calling is not effective. To stop all calls, you must put it in writing.
Abusive, illegal tactics by collection agencies can include the following:
Contacting you at work when you have already informed the collectors that it is not permissible
Contacting 3rd parties after contact has been made with you
Disclosing or threatening to disclose information to 3rd parties (friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, supervisors, etc…)
Threatening to have you arrested
Reporting or threatening to report false information on your credit report
Threatening any other action they cannot or do not intend to carry out
Name calling (examples include deadbeat, liar, and thief)
Using profanity
Attempting to collect a debt, or the portion thereof, that is currently in dispute
Contacting you over the telephone after you have sent a letter revoking their ability to do so
Calling in excess of what the law (your state law or the FDCPA98, whichever is more strict) permits
Contacting you in any manner after you have sent a thorough cease and desist letterâ€â€except to inform you of any action now in progress, i.e., a lawsuit
In the event of violations, you must preserve your rights. File a complaint with the FTC, the state agency that oversees collection agencies, and/or obtain a lawyer. If the agency is based out of state, you may be able to file a complaint in their state as well.
One of a debtor’s rights when dealing with a 3rd party collection agency is to demand that communications cease. The debtor can demand to be contacted by mail only, or not at all. Should the debtor send a complete CND letter, it is advisable only when the statute of limitations has run out for the debt. Otherwise, the letter will be interpreted (assuming that it doesn’t blatantly state so) as a refusal to pay the debt. The collection agency/creditor may very well file a lawsuit, viewing litigation as the only way to receive payment. A letter restricting communication to letter form only, in many collection agencies, move the debtor’s account from a collector to the compliance department (or whatever the dept is named, that attempts to ensure that the law is followed regarding debt collection) or experienced collectors will prepare a letter for the account.
It is my personal opinion that any and all correspondence sent to the collection agency be sent using certified mail. This is to provide the sender with a return receipt, which may prove very useful evidence in the event you take the collection agency to court.
Many people wish to not work with the collection agency, and instead work with the creditor. A debtor may attempt to work with the original creditor as long as they still own the account. If the debt has been sold, then it is no longer possible to work with the OC. Some entities by policy refuse to work with a debtor once the account has been assigned to a CA. This is not limited to consumer debts, and can include taxes, student loans, tuition, traffic tickets and other civil penalties. Most collection agencies that are collecting assigned debts do so on a contingency basis, and may only settle on the OC's terms.
It is important to know that collection agencies can do the following:
-Require the full payment immediately
-Not accept partial payments
-When attempting to locate the debtor, they may contact 3rd parties to obtain contact info (neighbors, friends, family members, etc…)
-Sue you for the debt (if past the statute of limitations, the defense is expiration of SOL)
-Ask you for your employer, banking info, income, etc…you are not required to give this information to them
-Attempt to collect a debt that has passed the SOL
-Use power phrases, such as “refusal to comply/cooperateâ€Â
-Explain any and all possible consequences of not paying off the debt*
Many collection agencies will perform some level of negotiating.
Simplified examples of negotiations may include the following:
-PIF demand --> settlement of 2/3
Or,
-PIF demand --> ½ down, ½ in 2 weeks or a month --> ½ down, 2 payments of 1/4
Or,
-PIF demand --> 2/3 down, partial payment plan over 3-12 months
Or,
-SIF offer, limited time only
The older the debt, the lower a company may be willing to settle for, but no matter which collection agency is attempting to collect, they will likely use boiler room tactics. In other words, the money must be in by 2 p.m., end of the day, end of the week, etc… Whenever a debtor is told that the money must be in by 2:00 p.m. (sometimes 3 p.m.), it is often because any payments received after that time will be applied to the next business day’s collections. Towards the end of the month, the collection attempts often get more aggressive. This is because most collectors/collection manager’s bonuses are based upon some form of monthly productivity, and they are striving to reach or maximize that bonus check.
The terms will soften only over time, provided the CA does not aggressively litigate. After each offer you are given is rebuffed, the collector will likely press you harder by explaining possible consequences (and in the case of abusive collections, will threaten you with things they cannot actually do).
On accounts that have passed the statute of limitations, collectors will attempt to have you verbally acknowledge the debt, especially if the call is being recorded, or having you make a token payment. Even a minuscule payment, or a promise to pay, will restart the clock. A cease and desist letter that does not acknowledge the debt, but does inform the CA that said debt has lapsed is probably the best defense.
Some collection agencies will refuse all payment plan offers, accepting only the BIF. These most aggressive companies will only take the PIF, or litigate the matter. Unfortunately, if they are legally entitled to collect the debt, they then do have the prerogative to proceed this way. Even though it isn’t “right,†it is legal. Before suing you, a debt collector must have either bought the debt, or been assigned to collect on the debt by the entity that does own it. In the event a debtor has asked for validation and is sued prior to being given said validation, then the debtor should answer with a counter claim for FDCPA8 violations.
It might be worth noting a couple of other things. First, many collectors are rarely paid a good wage. They may be paid a few dollars above minimum wage, but have the incentive of a potentially large bonus check after exceeding the amount they are budgeted to collect. The bonus can effectively double or better their standard wages. A second interesting fact is that a good number of collectors end up with the job after having been collected upon themselves, even with the same office if they live in the area.
*There is a difference between giving possible consequences and threatening.
For example: A collector may explain that failure to pay a traffic citation can result in the driver’s license being suspended (if that in fact can happen). A collector may not state that he/she is going to suspend the license unless the debtor pays.
BIF = Balance in Full
SIF = Settlement in Full
PIF = Paid in Full
CA = Collection Agency
OC = Original Creditor
fdcpa = Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
FTC = Federal Trade Commission
Congrats on your first sticky.A very well put together topic.
Congrats on your first sticky.A very well put together topic.
Thank you. I thought it might be easier for people to cope with
Thank you. I thought it might be easier for people to cope with collection agencies if they had a better idea of what they were dealing with.
Well said. This is a good summary of the highlights of the fdcp
Well said. This is a good summary of the highlights of the fdcpa.
Good info! I think a lot of these CAs don't know that consumers
Good info! I think a lot of these CAs don't know that consumers are aware of the SOL.
collections
My question is regarding how to pay them if you do agree on a payment plan. Is it a bad idea to send them a check? (Not postdated, of course, I know that) I refused to give checking info over the phone, though they were very pushy about it, but I did send a check. Is that a bad idea?
Sending a check is a good idea because the amount written on the
Sending a check is a good idea because the amount written on the check will only be withdrawn from your account when they cash it. You will need to monitor your account on the available balance when the company will send the check to the bank. Payments by money order can also be mentioned when the agreement is signed.
I must mention that if you read fine print, most of your bills t
I must mention that if you read fine print, most of your bills these days will say
"By sending a check you agree to authorize us to debit this amount". They turn paper checks into electronic transactions and vice-versa. I would feel most safe sending a MO.
u are so right morning star... due to the bonus structure within
u are so right morning star... due to the bonus structure within the CA, agents do tend to get very aggressive towards the end of the month, unless they had a stacking bonus like i did, which allows me to be lenient and so allowing the debtor to spread out payments according to what they can afford...
now this is going to be contraversial... don't know n/e better way to start ...
if u know ur in debt, pay the dang debt... yeah i know i know, life is tuff etc etc... but cut out TIVO, for a couple months, cut out the clubbing, and shoe sales, don t be like some debtors and mix up ur priorities ...
had a woman once that told me straight off that she spends 150.00 a month on cigarettes and nothing is going to make her touch that money, not ever the 3 yr debt she had with Ford... i was like ... LADY, ITS ONLY 50.00 BUCKS A MONTH I'M ASKING U FOR... she was adamant that she's not doing anything that would interferr with her smoking.
i'm not saying the blatantly rude collectors are correct in using scare tactics.. i just used sarcasm, satire and extreme cynism... however, i avoided raising my voice, threatening to call relatives and 3rd party persons, and more often than not, i usually gave pretty reasonable SIF's. There wasn't one SIF i took to my Boss and he didn't approve it, once the debtor explained why...
heck, in my last week i Sif a 80,000 account for 9,000 even though it was not in my department, or my company for that matter, since the department was closed down, but the lady wanted a clean slate on her credit... i nearly cried that day ... to think all that hard work and i couldn't see a penny out of the bonus on it...
The information provided may not be legal advice, but it is the general formula used by debt collectors world wide... the only ppl who i can tell u deviate for sure ... those b****rds from Manila ... they would sell their mother's to the market if it meant they would be getting BIF.
You keep trying to negotiate with them, and send them what you c
You keep trying to negotiate with them, and send them what you can afford. Keep copies of all correspondence and payments, in the event they try to sue you for the debt, you can show the judge that you've been trying to take care of the debt for xxx days/months/longer...
they'll basically either:
a)accept a payment plan,
b)sell your account to another collection agency,
c)sue you for payment,
I'm a little unclear on the SOL. If the original debt is 7 yrs
I'm a little unclear on the SOL. If the original debt is 7 yrs old and is sold to a CA does it start over?
SOL for lawsuits varies from state to state. SOL cannot be rest
SOL for lawsuits varies from state to state. SOL cannot be restarted by the sale of the debt from one party to another. SOL can be restarted by the debtor making a promise to pay, actually making a payment, or possibly by the debtor acknowledging that the debt is valid.
Balance in full usually refers to a payment demand Paid in full
Balance in full usually refers to a payment demand
Paid in full is a status of a debt
I have a question to ask please. I am repeatedly threatened with
I have a question to ask please. I am repeatedly threatened with having SIMM Associates ( of course) say to me or my co workers ( if they tell them I am not there) they are going to call HR's to have my pay attached. Is there any truth to this? Or is this an empty threat.. ?
They would need to sue you and obtain a judgment, first...so yes
They would need to sue you and obtain a judgment, first...so yes, this would be an empty threat.
This would be an example of an illegal threat, and probably constitutes 3rd party disclosure as well.
just wanted to throw in there is to my understanding you can be
just wanted to throw in there is to my understanding you can be contacted 2x via phone after you have send a C&D once to verify u recived it and then to tell you if further action will be taken, now keep in mind you send that and it goes to another agency pretty fast and they can start all over again. just wanted to toss that in there. also when you with a litigation office you can be alot harder i had a client who literally told us we will sue these 500 if they dont pay by the 30 of 2 months from now ans i could tell that person you wILL be sued no if and or buts alots people get phrases mixed up as well....also as far as making payment do and 2 epay they papercheck it to you bank for payment best method and all information about payment is dont on a recoreded line (at least at a good company) and its all federally regualted, btw make sure to recive a docket number for the call so you can request a copy in case of an error
Collection Agencies
Yep...they can be a demanding. I have some call and don't leave messages..I know the number from Caller ID. Also...I've had a few call, and ask for someone who doesn't live in this apartment..obviously a wrong number. THIS company calls all the time. When I tell them they have the wrong number, they say, " are u sure?".. ( like I don't know who lives here..LOL ) Anything I can do about this?? Thanks.
In regards to debts that are not yours, send a cease and desist
In regards to debts that are not yours, send a cease and desist letter.
In regards to debts that are yours, send a partial CND letter; one that only permits contact through the mail.
Send all correspondence using return receipt mail.
Westbury Ventures
Westbury Ventures???
Does anyone know anything about them?
I tried to get a mailing address from them and they would not give me one.
letter to ask collector to stay away from residence
Morning star
Does the letter asking collectors to cease communication with you other than by written correspondence apply after there is a judgment against you?
While a collector with a judgment may be able to obtain payment
While a collector with a judgment may be able to obtain payment through involuntary means (for example, a garnishment), they are still bound to follow the fdcpa.
credit report
If you pay a collection agency in full are they obligated to remove the item from your credit report.
Quote:If you pay a collection agency in full are they obligated
Quote:
If you pay a collection agency in full are they obligated to remove the item from your credit report. |
Nope. The will just mark it paid in full. You could negotiate a Pay for Delete.
Also, make sure you get a letter from anyone saying that your ac
Also, make sure you get a letter from anyone saying that your account is paid in full!!..karen
[font=Arial][/font][size=3][/size] A very good post! But,
[font=Arial][/font][size=3][/size]
A very good post!
But, a few points, maybe out of context.
You should NEVER take what a CA says you owe for a debt to be true.
You should NEVER call a CA or talk to them on the phone.
As a matter of fact, you should NEVER make arrangememnts to pay them at all.
Even if you make a deal with them, it will not improve your credit score/rating and probably will hurt it.
In fact, most CA's will not have the proof you owe the debt they have purchased. You MUST create a paper trail, insist they abide by the LAW, which by the way, they are hoping you are ignorant of.
Make sure you dispute the trade line with all the CRA's the debt is showing up on at the SAME time you DV the CRA!
The CA has 30 days to prove you owe the debt and NO MORE. This means they have to show you documents from the OC!
I am suing asset acceptance llc for this very thing. It took them 3 months to work up some doc's. NOT acceptable.
Don't let these out of control CA's ruin your life!
Mysty
debt
Wow...
Mysty.......good post. I DO have a question ( as usual..LOL). If you KNOW you owe a debt, and CA's call constantly, according to Morningstars post ( some time ago) a CA does NOT have to take 'partial payments, etc.' ..or...'lower a payment arrangement'. I tried to work something out, with a CA, for another ( possible?) payment arrangement. My work hours, dropped a bit, and I was explaining this to them. They basically said, " sorry to hear that, but, we can't change anything." They ALSO said they wouldn't "accept anything less per month." I haven't made any payment, to them for a few months, now. They HAVE called a few times..asking for "banking info' and "updated info." God...what a pain!! I started a new job, since then. Making better money and more hours. Should I send them WHATEVER I can right now? I was making payments, through Moneygram, so, I don't understand why they were asking for bank info. Advice please.
Quote:You should NEVER call a CA or talk to them on the phone.
Quote:
You should NEVER call a CA or talk to them on the phone. |
Never say never. There are good reasons to talk to a collector.
Quote:
As a matter of fact, you should NEVER make arrangememnts to pay them at all. |
That is absurd.
A debtor may be sued for the debt.
In the case of court fines, traffic citations, etc... the driver's license may be suspended, and state tax refunds may be intercepted.
If a federal student loan, federal tax returns may be intercepted, wages can be garnished, social security payments can also be garnished. If the debt in question is a private student loan, there is no SOL...
Quote:
I am suing asset acceptance llc for this very thing. It took them 3 months to work up some doc's. NOT acceptable. |
Good luck with that. If more people held CAs accountable for violations of the law, I think more collectors and CAs would work in compliance with the law.
Quote:
I was making payments, through Moneygram, so, I don't understand why they were asking for bank info. Advice please. |
You missed a payment. They probably want to set up an auto payment from a bank account.
[font=Arial][/font][size=3][/size] Hey Chargers First of a
[font=Arial][/font][size=3][/size]
Hey Chargers
First of all, cease all phone contact with the CA.
Secondly, send them a Cease and Desist letter. Tell them you only accept communication by mail and not the phone. Make sure to send the letter CMRRR.
After you receive the green card, if they continue to call, write down every instance they call.....do not answer the phone....this will begin to build a case against them if you want to sue them for violations.
You also need the CA to prove you owe them money.
Write the a DV letter, demand that they show proof that you owe them money, what it's for, how they calculated what they say you owe and demand the original documents with your signature from the OC proving that this is your account. Even if you know this is your account, make them prove it.
They have by law 30 days to comply. Be familiar with the FDCRA and the FCRA. There are some letters on this forum to get you started.....try not to write the letters verbatim. The CA's get hundreds of letters a week....so try to change the wording, write it longhand or print it off the PC with stationary paper.
Let me know how it goes, or if you have anymore questions.
Good Luck and be strong!
Mysty
LOL I have to disagree....there are never good reasons to tal
LOL
I have to disagree....there are never good reasons to talk to a collector, especially when they are trained to manipulate you. You always need a paper trail, trying to reason with someone on the phone whom is trying to get you to PAY by any means possible is a BAD move....no phone convos!
Quick Question...
Can a CA take your paid-off car even after you started paying them off but found out that they were ripping you off for more than what you owe so you stopped paying the last part?
Debt collectors
debt collectors My advice to anyone is try to work with first I dont ever give personal banking info over the phone this is a NO NO there is NO telling what they will do they could take someone to the cleaners I had one asking Me some personal info I told them That is none of there dam business these foks dont need to know that what ever any of you foks do DONOT send a check from your personal checking account because of the numbers on the bottom of the check use a money oder insted besure to keep records when you make a payment to the collector,s thats My advice to anyone the collector that Im dealing with had the nerve to ask Me if I owned My home My first thought how dare you to ask Me something that personal I said thats none of your business In fact nothing is none of there business they can be pushy dont let them do it stand your ground & know your rights as well to arm your self I call the debt collectors the stalkers thats the new name for them stalkers the only thing I can say is pay your bill,s if anyone is haveing trouble paying first things first try to work with your creditor,s first that would be the best thing to or anyone can get help from a credit conunseling service anyone can find it on line or the phone book or nfccc org thats My advice to anyone who needs help Ive used a credit counseling before they do work but in oder for it work you must willing to work with them that means you have to make monthly payments to your credit counseling agency office in oder for them to work on your behalf :)
Collection Agency
I was sent a letter by First National Collection Bureau and they were asking for almost triple the money i owe to an old credit card about 7 years ago. it is no longer on my report but they say they are putting it back up there and debt doesn't just go away. can they do this.
Quote:it is no longer on my report but they say they are putting
Quote:
it is no longer on my report but they say they are putting it back up there and debt doesn't just go away. |
Can put it back on CR: only legal if the debt was charged off less than seven years ago, then it could only remain until the seven year mark.
Debt doesn't just go away: True.
Mail the CA a DV letter.
What if you don't owe?
I have been contacted by portfolio recovery associates about a debt that isn't mine. Today I sent out a letter asking for all documents mentioned above as well as telling them to only contact me by mail.
I hear these people saying "Just pay your debt" but in this case it isn't even mine. I asked them when the debt was incurred and they told me almost 20 years ago.
So lets hear the former debt collectors defend that!
Collection Agent Outright Lied
I missed a couple of payments and could not resume right away an installment agreement on an insurance subrogation payment plan. It was turned over to new collector whose first call was threatening right from the start but what was worse, the amount was double the original amount of my share of the accident claim - I stated to the agent that I disputed the amount, that he needed to verify the amount and okay, I made the mistake of saying then we could talk about any payment I would make against the real amount I may or may not owe. He sent me a "confirming letter" that day stating that I agreed to start paying $50 immediately - which was an outright lie. The next day I got a letter stating that if I did not pay the full amount of the debt, his agency would have my driver's license revoked. I sent a letter (it was before I read the advice in this website, so I didn't send it certified/registered) stating that I did not agree to anything, that I did request verification of any debt, that all future communications must be made in writing, absolutely no telephone communications would be acceptable. He continues to call with the same threats, a law firm citing this agency's name sent me a 30-day to respond re same claim amount (the wrong amount), and I got another voicemail message this morning from the threatening agent. I am preparing a new letter reconfirming my request that no more telephonic communications are allowed and attaching a copy of the earlier correspondence, but this time certified. The problem here is that legally, even though I was sitting in a parked car with engine running and someone hit me, the insurance carrier made me liable for half their insured's damages and it would take a long protracted lawsuit to prove that I was not liable at all (that's why I had settled for half the damages and had begun making payments against an installment agreement) - the bottom line, since I was uninsured at that time and it is less than 3 years since the date of that "accident," the carrier could go to court and demand the court revoke my driver's license for being an uninsured motorist at the time of the accident, even though I have been insured since then. (The funny part, the accident happened in front of my friend's house where we had a garage sale over the weekend so that I could not only renew my insurance coverage but renew my truck's registration - ain't that a kicker? One more day and I would have had insurance coverage!)
debt collectors
It's important to note that people have hard times, for those who say just pay your bills, it would be best to stand in someone else's shoes......how about the single moms out there whose husband just up and left????
What about those who get sick, or laid-off.
Remember, debt collectors, if told do not call your job, let them know they have no choice but to comply. If not, your states Attorney General's office will make them comply, and you have a job full of witnesses if you decide to seek damages in small claims court...you cannot sue for an fdcpa violation, only a Federal agency or an attorney can, but you can sue for harassment or defamation of character. In most states small claims is under a $100, just serve their statutory agent which must be on file with the Secretary of State for every state they collect in!
Never
Never work with a collection agency, ever. There is no law that says that you have to. Don't even talk to them, unless you're getting their contact info to send your cease & desist. Take 'em out of he loop.
Bad advice if your debt is still w/in SOL. Your C&D gives them
Bad advice if your debt is still w/in SOL. Your C&D gives them very few options. Law suits come to mind.
Citi Financial
I have a $6000.00 signature loan. I am going through a bankruptcy. We are behind while we are going through the process. We put 2 30" TVs on the note. They are now sending a cout summons to appear in court,and they want to sue us for the full amount and the property. I dont even think we have one of the TVs andy more? Can they do anything.
debt collectors
I found this article very helpful--Your right to sue the violators of FCRA ftc.gov/os/statutes/031224fcra.pdf
Collection Agency
I was called almost 2 weeks ago, by this collection agent, who told me that he was trying to collect the money I owed these payday loan companies, and that if I didn't comply they were going to try to get me on 4 counts of fraud. I had never once heard from these companies, and I just found out that 2 of them are out of business. I am scared to death that I am going to go to jail. I have little kids and nothing means nore to me than them. Can I be put in jail for this? When I called the local police department they told me that they couldn't say I wouldn't go to jail. I know I owe the money, and have every intention of paying it. I just want to know if on the first call that this collector made, he broke the law by telling me that I will be charged with 4 counts of fraud. Scared to death. Please help!!!!
Payday Loan companies
We just found out that the creditor I mentioned was representing these companies and we did a lot of research on them, the collection agency included, and we found that a couple of the companies he mentioned are no longer in business. If this creditor is representing the "out of business companies" then where is the money gong? howcome there is no information at all on this agency? and is he breaking the law by representing said companies?. I live in maine and I have read that these companies have to be licensed to loan us money up here, and that so far no internet companies are, What do I do?
BIF and PIF is exactly the same think...just different agency ja
BIF and PIF is exactly the same think...just different agency jargon
Portfolio Recovery Assoc.
I received a phone call last night from Portfolio Recovery Assoc about a debt that was from 1998. I didn't acknowledge the loan of course, I told her I would have to do some investigating b/c I am not aware of any loans from 11 yrs ago. What are my rights and what advise can you all give me about this? Thanks!
advice
Ok there is a difference in CA's as you call them 1st and 3rd. 1st is the company you originally had the debt through...and trust me their legal dept. Isn't one you want to be threatening. 3rd however is a different and hard to distingish party usually asian. They do have he fdcpa to deal with. 1st does NOT although most don't want neg publicity so they have internal rules (usually stronger than fdcpa) If you tell them you are recording or don't tell them then YOU are in violation of the law if they don't know or they tell you to stop. And just to be certain they will repeat the request several times during the call. Please people use common sense they have your SSN(all 9 digits) name, phone # address..don't get rude...if they go postal you don't want to be on their last call list. even CA's are human normally :>
ripped of
i overpayed some debt collection agency and i just found out how much money exactly that i owe the company that refered me to them. i was wondering what's the best to get them to give me a refund.
don't really know. call them first if you have their number. As
don't really know. call them first if you have their number. As a collector myself..I really honestly don't know...but then again I'm 1st party or who sold your debt. If they are domestic they are going to be easier to get to..foreign companies are not so easy. I'd recommend those of you with debt STAY away RUN from settlement companies..they ruin you and your credit. If you don't like calls change your number or use "do not disturb" feature on your phone i available. Hey I like hangups makes my job easy just two clicks and on I go. Best wishes to you all and remeber most collectors are really good people with a rotten rep.
bogus payment by ca
I just saw on my credit report that a CA whom i've never talked to or had any dealings with whatsoever reported that I made a payment to them. This is not true! What can I do?