National Enterprise Systems: How to deal with this debt collector

This is all kind of murky and scary territory, and I have no idea how to proceed.


Should sending a cease and desist letter be my first step?
How about a debt validation letter?

The only thing CA tells me is that this must be dealt with immediately, or they will pursue legal action.

I really don't have the money to pay them right now, but would be willing to come to some sort of agreement. Should I do that? Should I try to negotiate down? How can I trust this company that has harrassed me so mercilessly (and which has so many complaints against it) with my bank info for purposes of payment??

Can they sue? If I have evidence of their breaking laws (harrassing, threatening, etc), should I be eager to get into court with them??

Anyone?
I have to talk with national enterprise today.

Also, the 30 day window for DV is closing.

lapine - welcome to the forums! Since you have registered with the site, a debt counselor will contact you within a few days (after Christmas) to discuss your situation.

As far as the CA trying to intimidate you, don't let them. Do you know that this is a valid debt, and that you truly owe it? If so, it sounds like you are on the right track by starting to make payments. However, I would not advise paying anything by ACH or debiting your bank account. Get an address and send them a money order. That will stop them from debiting your account for more than you agreed to.

If, however, National Enterprise System do debit your account for more than you agreed to, go directly to your bank and dispute the charge. You should be able to have it reversed if it was for more than you agreed to.

I'm curious, though - why do you have to talk to them today, if you have already given them your account info to withdraw a payment? There should be no reason to speak with them further - and I would tell them that.

In the meantime, keep posting and keep us updated on your situation.

TY Suebee!

I basically need to instruct National Enterprise System not to make any withdrawal. Realize that I'd made a mistake giving them bank info, and don't want to incur charges.

Looking forward to speaking with someone.
Best.

You have reasonable questions with answers at the back of your mind. You must get the debt validated by the collection agency and confirm their collections are legitimate. Keep a check on your bank account as they will be trying for a debit. This is fair only after they send you the debt info. Send your debt validation letter to their mailing address. Send it through certified mail with return receipt requested and keep a copy in your file. In the meantime, request your bank to "hold" any transaction done by NES. Without complete info given by the CA, you have reason to block them if they are trying a debit.

collection agencies are governed by the fdcpa. You should educate yourself on it. It also states in the FDCPA that if a collection agency take more than the designated amount and deposited your check before the designated day you can sue them for a fine.

If the debt is within the SoL (statue of limitations) then they can sue you for the monies owed. That is the legal action they were most likely discussing.

What type of debt is this? Credit Card? Pay Day Loan? Bad Check?

I owe some money on a credit card, National Enterprise Systems called me and my husband and said if we didn't pay the money within a week that a would garnish money from his paycheck. I've heard that you can only garnish money from a paycheck if its for taxes or child support. Does anyone have an answer for me. Thanks

It depends on what state you are in but if they were going to garnish your check it would have to go to court before hand. The only people who can get a garnishment without court is the government/childsupport

I have a case pending against National Enterprise Systems for similar threats. If your state does not allow garnishment for unsecured debts, they are violating the collection laws meant to protect you every time they make the threat.

If Nation Enterprise threatens to file suit or start legal proceedings and does not follow up with it,they are breaking the law.The fdcpa states a collector cannot threaten to take an action that is not possible or threaten to take an action they have no intention of taking. Please review the links in my signature.The first two are the federal laws for collection and credit reporting.The bottom link is for a debt validation letter which you would send certified return receipt.

NES collects for many creditors across the country using any illegal tactic available to scare people to make give check info that they can not keep. They try to get you to give check account information so they can still run a check even though they no it is not good just so their clients think they collected money in that month, My goal is to organize as many people across the country to bring this company down and close them for company wide fdcpa violations.

They took my information and postdated a check for the end of the month. It was 21 days between i gave them my information and they tried to take money out of my account. Which is illegal. On a post dated check for more than 10 days a collection agency must send you a written letter stating that they are going to withdraw the money within 5 days of them cashing the check. It is a federal law. Anyone wants to get together to take them down let's do this.

yea I gave them my info as they said they would take involuntary measures to collect my debt, which by the way is $120 parking tickets from Ohio U last year. By now w/ interest it was 132.50 and OU sent the debt to the Ohio Attorney Generals Office. I missed a payment with them and the Ohio Attorney Generals Office sent the debt to NES. yeah go figure

I would imagine Natinal Enterprise Systems would serve you for unpaid tickets, in the state I live in the campus police for my state university are certified law enforcement. Citations they write are the same a officer would write. Did you call Ohio AG's office and verify this?

The people at National Enterprise System are trained to collect a debt. Remember you the consumer signed on that line, taking full responsibility for making the payment. Merchandise that you charge on your credit cards isnt free, you have to pay for what you charge for, because the debt aint gonna go away.

Since you post defensively for NES I would wager that you work for them. If so I was wondering what states forward unpaid traffic citations for them to collect on? Where I live if a person has unpaid citations it is dealt with via court (usually after a period of time if they continue to go unpaid a warrant is issued for that person so that they may appear in court) just seems kinda strange as it doesn't appear to follow any judiciary system that I have ever encountered.

Further more, what attorney general acts as a medium for debts, he would have to have a lot of deputy attorneys to be able to do that.

Actually attorneys general offices do have a multitude of divisions, it wouldn't surprise me if there were a separate division dedicated to that.

In NY, the attorney general's office has a division dedicated to suing people for personal injury actions against state officials!

In NJ, there's a separate division dedicated to town's with low numbers and homeowners who refuse to clear leaves out of the street after the deadline has passed.

Attorneys General by their very name handle a number of different aspects of the law, not just the common thought of aspect in criminal law. Who enters appearances on behalf of the state in civil lawsuits? The attorney general's office. I guess out there, the attorney general also collects debt owed to the state.

Insightful as always, thanks hockeyman

Thanks for this post. This is really good information to have. :-)

I sent them a validation request by certified mail. It was received yesterday and my phone has stopped ringing off the hook, almost like magic. I don't know if I've heard the last of them but I almost want them to try and harass me now that I've put the ball in their court.

Quote:

hi jose--"Dan Morgan" has been calling you too??

I got a call from NES yesterday afternoon. Called the number back and a lady told me that my wife was facing criminal charges, that she owed "over $700", and that she's getting sued. No information about who the accout was even with, other than to say citibank is involved....but that tells me nothing because citibank issues cards for everyone and their uncle!

So, an hour and a half after I recorded her three fdcpa violations, I got a second call. Called back again, and was told the same thing at first by some guy. He said they were preparing to file charges against my wife. I asked, "hang on, are you talking about criminal charges here?" and he said "right, she's gonna have to go to court over this." To me, he just stated that yes, these are criminal charges. Later in the call he denied ever saying that but thats ok, I have him on tape....

Got a third call today, called back and suddenly the amount went from "over $700" to $548. I had the lady today do a cross-check and she told me that they have exactly one account in their entire system with my wife's name on it, so it isnt like I am getting called about two accounts. The lady today told me that based on the account number she can tell me that this is a Discover card, which we have never had, separately or jointly. When I said yesterday that I had no knowledge of this account, and that we do our finances together, I was told "well, that means your wife's been keeping things from you, pal"--I consider that to be another violation of the FDCPA because such a comment can only serve the purpose of harassing the consumer. It has no relevance to the situation and no place in a professional discussion.

So, between 6:20 PM central time yesterday and 3:00 PM central time today, I got three phone calls that racked up at least four separate FDCPA violations, and a couple of these violations were also repeated in two of the calls. Thank God for microcassette recorders!! By the time this is said and done they will be closing whatever account this is, and then owing my wife some money to boot. Right now we are waiting to see if the required disclosure comes about our right to dispute. If it doesnt, we will be up to at least $5000 in FDPCA violations, all in one week....

[quote]I got a call from NES yesterday afternoon. Called the number back and a lady told me that my wife was facing criminal charges, that she owed "over $700", and that she's getting sued. No information about who the accout was even with, other than to say citibank is involved....but that tells me nothing because citibank issues cards for everyone and their uncle![/quote]

I think the only requirement to get a card with Citibank is that you be able to fog a mirror.

skydivr, did they give a recording disclosure? If not, those could be even more fdcpa violations.

yeah, they did that. Just did some checking in the fdcpa, and lo and behold, even a message left on your answering machine is considered a "communication under the law! SOOOOO....that means that they have until tomorrow to get the initial disclosure of rights into my mailbox. If it isnt here tomorrow, that will be five days after their initial communication with me--without the disclosure of my rights.

So far, we have--

1--two separate people claiming that they are filing criminal charges against my wife

2--two separate people telling me that my wife is getting sued(if this does not happen then this is a violation of FDCPA because they cannot threaten something that they arent really doing)

3--Harassing comments about my wife "must be hiding things from you" which have no legitimate use in the collection of any debt

4--misrepresenting the amount of the debt--first lady said it was over $700 and everyone else says it is $548

5--if it isnt here tomorrow, then they failed to notify us within 5 days of initial communication about our rights.

If that letter comes tomorrow then we are sending out cease and desist & DV letters, certified mail. I will keep you guys updated as to how it goes. If anyone sees anything in there that I missed, PLEASE feel free to mention it, because we fully intend to slap a lawsuit on these morons and I want to get them on each and every violation we can.

ok, update, and its a funny one....

I got another call from them last night. So, press 'record', call back...a guy picks up the line and doesnt identify himself or his company. he tells me that he's calling about the citibank debt and how would I like to take care of that today? So, I responded with, Gee, when are you people going to provide me with the documentation that the law requires?

Then he thinks he's gonna educate me...he says "let me school you on that documentation....what you need to do is contact the original creditor, not us. WE DO NOT PROVIDE YOU WITH THAT, THEY DO AND YOU MUST GO GET IT FROM THEM. Imagine that--the guy's gonna "school me" on debt collection law....So, when I calmly inform him of section 809 of the fdcpa, he cuts me off and says "let me transfer you to someone who cares" and puts me to the supervisor....this is where it gets really good....

The supervisor, Carol, gets on the phone--"how may I help you". "Well, I dont know why I was even transferred to you, Carol, but your debt collector is as ignorant as the day is long. He just told me that he was going to "School me" on debt collection laws, and when I wiped the floor with his ass regarding that law he immediately sent me over to you. Perhaps he isnt capable of dealing with an intelligent person??"

I then proceeded to inform her of everything her company has been doing for the last week. I told her about the threats of criminal prosectution--"WHAT?? Who from this company told you that??"--I told her about the failure to disclose consumer rights as required by law--"well, it says on your account that the notice was sent out early last week and it didnt come back so thats enough to satisfy the law..."--but thats when I remind her that her company only received this account to collect on 2/1/08, which means that "early last week" they didnt even have the debt in their office, so they clearly didnt send out that letter when she's claiming they did. Then I let her know that one of the DC's told me it was sent out over a month ago. Now, at this point, the mood I am picking up from her is changing. It's subtle at first, then it becomes quite obvious as the call goes on. I list out no less than seven different violations of the FDCPA and list out the section of the FDCPA that pertains to each one. I then inform her that as per FDCPA the penalty for these is $1000 payable to me plus any actual damages. I can almost hear her jaw hitting the floor....especially when I ask her "you owe me this money for the way your company has chosen to do business with me in an unlawful and downright disgusting manner--how would you like to take care of that today??"

Yes, I just couldnt resist! So, now, she stasrted off in a position of perceived control over the call and that has changed to me being in full control and she is now just along for the ride. So, I inform her that documentation on this account is required by law and I have nothing further to say to anyone at NES until they provide it. But thats not all...

I then reiterate to her how two of her collectors insisted that my wife is about to be charged with three different crimes. She said, " Sir, I am truly sorry about that, I wish I knew who said that to you because I would handle it personally, but there are over 800 people working here and there are probably 50 or so with the last name Jones..." So, I say, "Well, I have all the comments recorded from the calls, I can send you a copy if you would like..." She immediately bites on that, and then realizes what she's saying: "I would very much like a copy of...um, wait a minute, you cant--" I stop her right there--"I know, I know, I cannot record the call without your permission, right? I knew you were going to say that. Well, youre wrong again. Federal law states that an individual can record the call so long as one party to the call gives consent. Not only that but youre calling my state when you call me, and my state is also a one-party state. So, I am well within the law, thanks for caring so much."

Well, at this point, she isnt saying anything. She's not very happy, and it appears that our "debt collection supervisor" is squirming on this call, very uncomfortably I might add. She then asks me, "Sir, are you an attorney?" When I tell her that I am not, you can actually her the sigh of relief on the phone....until I told her that I dont need to be a lawyer to sue her for these violations.

Overall, a fun phone conversation. It's priceless when you can get the chance to turn their game around on them, and its even better when a company ignores the law completely--in the recording of the call you can just hear when that little light came on in her head that said they're in big trouble....

End of the story is that I was promised validation on the debt. Let's see if it happens or not. Oh, one more thing....everyone I have spoken with has told me that my wife's getting sued. Everyone, that is, except for our new friend Carol the supervisor--she says "I would like to know who told you that and why, the account was only placed with us for collection, not for us to file a lawsuit. That isnt anywhere near where this account is at this time....so, by asking her about it, I have her on tape confirming the FDCPA violation made by her DC's on the phone when they said she's getting sued. Thanks SO MUCH, Carol, for the proof I needed!!!!

1--threatening a lawsuit when it isnt what they are doing
2--threatening criminal arrest and prosecution for a debt
3--harassing comments that have no place in a professional collection call
4--failure to inform consumer of required disclosure of rights within five days of initial communication
5--failure to provide "miranda" when calling
6--failure to identify their company when calling
7--misrepresenting the amount of the debt

All of this has taken place since 2/1/08. That's an impressive record!! I am going to get the pro se packet this week and we are going to file complaint ASAP. I will let everyone know how it goes.

Jon

Thanks for the great information, skydvr.

My wife just got her first call from these a-holes yesterday. They phoned her at work while she was on break and made the person who answered her phone to go get her to come to the phone. This guy talked so fast he would not let her get a word in edgewise. He intimidated her by saying that she needed to come up with a settlement now or he would walk down to our county courthouse and get a summons to bring her into court and then garnish her paycheck. He said that she could pay $2600 of the $3300 she owes on this account that he is collecting and it would be paid up. She told him she doesn't have that much and that if she did she would pay. She told him that he cannot call her at her work because it is not permitted and is embarassing. He told her if she thought the phone call was embarassing, wait until he got a summons served her at her work. He demanded a routing number for her checking account and her account number. She was in tears and gave it to him. He said se had until the 26th of February before he would take the money out of her account and gave her his phone number, ext number and his name to contact him after she got off of work so that she could confirm that he could take the money out on the 26th.

When I got home I called him up and the first words out of my mouth I asked him if he "was the one who called my wife and harassed her at work today?" That Rat Ba@#$rd hung up on me. I called back and he was the rudest individual I have ever had to deal with. I asked him about "debt validation" and he said it went out in the mail today (2/12/08). He also said that from what I am asking that the "deal" he had struck with my wife earlier whereas if she paid $2600 on the 26th, is no longer being offered and that it is now back to $3300 and after they get a court order attorney fees will be added on top. He also asked me if I was a lawyer at which I told him no. I asked him what company he was with and what was the nature of his business. He hung up again.

I then called back and hung on for an operator because I wanted to know more about the company. The person who answered the phone would not give me any details so I asked for someone who has authority to do so and he connected to the same rude Rat Ba@#$#%d again who would not answer any questions. I was keeping my cool the entire time. He hung up on me again.

I figured the operator who answered the last time got my number from caller id and then transferred me to wo has that account so I called back using *67 thereby hiding my caller id. This guy must have recognized my voice and transfered me back to the RB again. The RB told me I was harassing him since I had called him 5 times in 5 minutes. I told him that knew all about me and I was entitled the same, that I should know all about their company and what is the nature of their business, are they a debt collection business or a legal service. He would only talk around it without identifying it and eventually hung up on me again. I remained calm throughout and he was the one getting all hot under the collar. 4 more days until I get the letter if indeed they sent it out. More to come...[font=Arial][/font][color=Black][/color][size=3][/size]

What is the number you have NES Victim? You should have your wife call her bank to keep them from debiting that account. The method he used to get her account number and routing number, and then saying he was going to perform this transaction without even asking her permission. It's theft and extortion.

You should also send them a debt validation letter (you can find a template for one in my signature) send it certified mail, return receipt requested. Once they receive it they are bound by federal law to cease collection activity until they can produce said validation.

Lastly contact your state attorney general's office to file a complaint. This company need to be dealt with by our nations legal system.

You should also file with the FTC.

Couple questions for you, if you don't mind.

1. What type of debt is this?
2. When was the last date of payment (guestimate)?
3. What state do you live in?

In my discussion with him, he said that the deal that he and my wife struck was no longer and that they would up the figure to the $3300 from their $2600 offer to settle. I told him that there would not be enough to cover any amount in her account and not to withdraw anything.

Monday we received the debt validation letter requesting that we return it with an immediate payment of $3300.

Today we received a notice that they were withdrawing money out of her account per her agreement on the 22nd even though the CA had said it would be the 26th. We went to our Credit Union to see about stopping payment. Since they had never withdrawn money out of her account they could not figure a way to stop it so they suggested that she close the account and open a new one so that is what she did so as to keep them from overdrawing her account and taking her next three paychecks from this overdraft since she has a "courtesy" over draft protection where they will pay the amount and charge a $30 fee to her account. He probably asked her when she got paid next and wrote down the date then sent the letter about withdrawing from her account where she would have little to no time to do anything about it.

This company is a vicious collection agency, the kind you hear about but never realized they existed until they bite you in the arse.

The debt is from a Pay Pal credit card. She ran up the debt and has not been able to pay for a few months. I was unaware.

This is the first contact with NES since Pay Pal turned it over to them.

We live in Illinois so there is a garnishment law whereas if they do get a judgment from the courts they can garnish her wages.

We know this is her debt and that she needs to start repaying it but they are asking the impossible, complete payment immediately and are unwillni9g to negotiate any other possible settlement.

We have an appointment with a credit counseling Service so that we can hope to get our credit payments under control to get out of debt and back on track. All in all we owe less than $7K in credit cards which is less than the national average household. We just extended ourselves a bit further than we should have with the cost of living raising so sharply due to fuel and electricity,etc.

What he did to your wife was just short of mugging her in an alley way. Let's talk about hitting back, shall we?

We do have an fdcpa violation here (at the very least using violation of ???? 806 (2) and ???? 807 (4)

Ok, that's $1000 right there, that's probably all the statutory damages you could recover, however the punitive damages are going to be quite large. As I already mentioned this person who contacted your wife used coerced your wifes account and routing number using extortion (which you might even be able to get that specific collector charged with it) then with them trying to submit the item without the account holders authorization, that would be conspiracy to commit theft (as the theft has not already occurred)

I think the 3 grand they are demanding from you will be nothing compared to what you might be getting from them. I honestly think you should consider obtaining a free legal consultation and explore the possibility of filing a suit against NES. If you need any help in finding a attorney you can start at naca.net, they have a nice list of attorneys by state.

My wife just got a phone call this morning at work even though I had expressed that she was not supposed to receive phone calls of this nature att her work. It was the same Rat B@$tard that had called her before.

This time he told her that they were withdrawing the money this Friday. She told him that she had closed her account so there was no use of them doing that.

he then got irate and said she was going to be prosecuted for writing a fraudulent check. he then hung up.

When he called her the first time, he was so harassing and intimidating that she had given them permission to debit her account. I was the one who called back and told them they could not. I am on her account. I am her spouse so this debt is as much mine as it is hers. I should have as much right to say about activity as she does.

I am going to instruct he to hang up the phone if he calls again and to not talk with him as he has been harassing her and knows that he can upset her and intimidate her.

You asked for his number in a previous post. His number is: 800-236-2380 ext. 1483 his name is Ronald Tice. Anyone who wants to speak with this Rat B@$tard should give him a call.

Ohh, threatening criminal prosecution. Not sure if you already know this, but debts are civil matters, not criminal. You can't be arrested, even if you could be the extortion would negate any possibility of them filing said charges.

What state do you live in? I wonder if it's possible to record calls in your state without the other parties knowledge. (one or two party state)

wow...this all sounds familiar....

OK, the first thing is this---in your state, they have to be licensed. And I just checked and found that they are. I also found that in your state, you need the consent of all parties to record a call. So, that is out.

You got the disclosure letter, right? I would send two things off right now. I would send a debt validation letter immediately. I would also send a cease and desist statement within that letter, telling them that they are not authorized to contact you by telephone at any phone number anywhere, and that all further communication from them is to take place via mail. This is important--you need to send that out certified mail, return receipt requested. It will cost something like $5 and change but believe me you have to do it this way, so you can prove that you sent this letter and that they received it. Once they sign for it, you will get the green signature card in the mail, showing the date they signed for it. at that point, they are only allowed to contact you ONCE by phone, to tell you one of three things:

1--that they are ceasing collection of the debt altogether
2--that they are returning the debt to the current owner
3--that they will continue to work on collection of the debt and that they may invoke any remedies allowed by law

Thats it. They cannot call you and demand money, not one time. If they do, you need to write down everything about that call--date and time, exactly what both parties said, and try to get the name and phone number to call them back, if possible, and of course, if it isnt the same guy youve been talking to.

If you need help putting this letter together, just let me know, I use one that's pretty solid and unmistakable in its wording and intent.

Once that is done, once they get this letter from you, they cannot take ANY further collection activity until they provide the validation you requested. Not one phone call, not one letter demanding payment, not filing a lawsuit, nothing. Any action they take will be illegal, so keep us updated and believe me I can find each and every violation for you.

Something else that hasnt been mentioned--is this on your wife's credit reports? If it is, the minute they receive your DV letter they are required to notify that credit bureau that they reported to, that the debt is being disputed. This is a violation of the FCRA if they do not, and most CA's dont bother with this one from what I have seen.

So far, you have:

1--harassment, fdcpa violation
2--threatening criminal prosecution for a debt, FDCPA violation
3--refusal to identify company, FDCPA violation
4--failure to provide "mini-miranda" which states that they are a collection agency and all info obtained will be used for that purpose, FDCPA violation
5--threatening to "walk down to your county courthouse" if you dont pay up right now, FDCPA violation

We can go on and on with these morons....its the same thing with them every time. As I said earlier, I got them on 9 independent violations in less than one week, and that is on a debt that they claim totals $548!!! Imagine being liable to pay $9000 in damages plus court costs because you were an idiot about handling a $500 debt....if I were that boss, I would fire the people who made that happen in a heartbeat!!!

Come to think of it, I actually shouldnt have told the supervisor what I know of the law--by now I could have had 20 or 30 violations stacked up, who knows??

Anyways, go ahead and send that DV letter and C&D statement out ASAP by certified mail and we will go from there.

Great info Skydivr. You seem to be an expert on this. We really need this kind of advice. Thanks so much

Found two more violations--

6--announcing intention to withdraw your post-dated payment on a date other than agreed upon, fdcpa violation
7--continued calling your wife at work after he was told that calls to her work were not allowed, FDCPA violation

At this point, if you can sway a judge, this whole thing will be gone. Now, I dont advocate not paying a legitimate debt, but let's face it--if these people cant follow the law in the process, there is no harm, in my book, in suing them and letting them pay you enough to settle the bill. If they dont want to pay consumers, then they can either learn to follow the law, or they can learn a new phrase:






"Would you like fries with that?"

Most of these posts referring to experiences with NES seem very negative. I owe a relatively small amount due to a dumb mistake regarding a clothing store credit card. While NES did not call me excessively, they were pretty persistent. They didn't call at ungodly hours, but like every other day for a few weeks until I decided to answer the phone. The man initially offered one settlement option and suggested I borrow the money when I told him that I was financially unable to pay the lump sum. I finally got him to let me pay it in two payments five weeks apart, and after that he was a lot nicer and more personable. I read the concern about whether or not they would debit your savings account for more than was agreed, and NES didn't do this to me. They removed the correct amount two days after the agreed date. The only thing I was worried about was if this was totally legit and the right way about tackling my debt. Will companies like NES leave me alone? Will my credit reflect the absence of this debt? I guess only time will tell...

NES has called my house several times a day for the last 2 months and is now calling family, neighbors, and the HR Dept at my job!! I have spoken to them several times and requested they send me the information via mail. Nothing has been sent to me. I am willing to pay my debt but not willing to be harrassed. How do I stop this?

One thing you could have your wife do if they call: insted of having her just hang up, have her inform the guy up front that she is recording the call and that if he does not wish to be recorded then to hang up immediately. I believe by law that should cover it, if he keeps talking, he implies consent. If he says "I do not give permission" then she responds with "then hang up, by continuing to speak knowing the call is recording, that is giving consent."

i have been dealing with this company for a short time. i have heard all of these violations. i have set up [email]fightingnesback@yahoo.com[/email] for anyone who is ready to take them down. send your case and i will try and forward to attorneys. i do not believe you can throw stones at a tank. but i do believe that together we can push the bolder to take it down. its time we reclaim our freedom from the harrassement. remember we cant do anything without everyones help. hope to hear from you.

I recently worked at this horrible place. National Enterprise Systems is the collection agency from hell. It's the devil's worst nightmare. Employees are trained to collect according to the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act but once on the floor in their respective departments collectors are told to forget everything they learned.

My supervisor, Bryan Howard under the alias of Paul Stevens, regularly provided a second voice to collectors having trouble closing collections. This idiot would identify himself to callers as a federal agent, an NES attorney, etc., anything to try to scare the debtor into paying. He would actually tell debtors and their spouses that a lawsuit had been filed and if the account is not paid by postdated check by a certain time that day a deputy of the court was coming to serve the debtor on his job. I witness this on a daily basis all day long. B. Howard is neither a federal agent, attorney nor any of the other things he claims to be and NES don't sue debtors. All are clear violations of the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act.

Debtors are talked to as if they're inhuman. Even when the debtor is not home the person taking the message is treated like dirt. I will never forgot my supervisor shouting at an 81 year old African-American woman for not getting a pen and paper to take the message. "I DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE 81 YEARS OLD HE SCREAMED AT THE WOMAN." I've witness collectors hollering at kids "GO GET YOUR FATHER."

You are not supposed to talk to spouses????????in certain states--about their significant others???????? debt unless given permission by the spouse to do so. This rule is ignored at NES. In fact when I left training I put the document about the spouse rule on my cubicle wall to reference only to have it snatched and trashed by Bryan Howard who said I wouldn????????t need it.

The owners Ernest Pollack, his wife, and two sons: Scott and pie-faced Chris are well aware of what is going on. These people are hands on owners. They constantly walk the call room floors, note the individual collectors and group collection sales and hear all the violations first hand. The more a collector screams at a debtor the more they like it. People actually clap and cheer when a collector goes off on a debtor. All that concerns these greedy money grabbers is how much money they are collecting at any given time.

Payments are demanded in full although they do offer settlements that are too demanded in full. Money orders and mail-in payments are not accepted, only postdated checks over-the-phone or Western Union Transfers for Citi Bank accounts. Some other creditors do allow NES to also take payment by credit card. For the postdated checks debtors are asked to give their accounting and routing numbers. NES, the scumbags they are, attempts to take the money out before the postdate. Nice company huh!

Collectors and supervisors once provided with bank info by the debtor call banks automated customer service numbers to obtain how much money they have in their accounts. We have their social security numbers so getting info this way is like taking candy from a baby. Some banks have safeguards against this and required you talk to a live person. They also work this wickedness on debtors???????? credit card accounts or the credit card accounts of the debtors???????? spouse, mother, father, etc. I remember one collector on the phone with a debtor saying ???????Your Mother Has $7,000 On Her Card She Can Use;??????? She Can Pay This Debt For You!???????

If anyone needs someone who's "been there" in any of their legal actions against this despicable company I????????m your guy.

I see these people all over the place & still can't figure out why people are talking to them on the phone more than once. Tell them to send all inquiries thru the mail so you have everything in writing. Failure to do so is a violation of law. Record & note every violation. Do not give them bank account info, if you have, close the account & get another one before they drain your account. Send a validation letter certified mail. Most time they can't cough up the information you request, particularly the part amount the money you owe THEM, not the people they bought the debt from. If they violate the law several times you can sue them for it. I have burned 4 companies for a total of $6k over this. Want to stop them - sue them.

Tell them to send all inquiries thru the mail so you have everything in writing. Failure to do so is a violation of law

Unfortunately there is no case law to back that up. You can request that all communication be via USPS but they don't have to obey that. The only provision limiting contact is in sec 805 of the fdcpa pertaining to times they can call, calls to your employer, or if you are represented by an attorney:

(a) COMMUNICATION WITH THE CONSUMER GENERALLY. Without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a debt collector may not communicate with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt --

(1) at any unusual time or place or a time or place known or which should be known to be inconvenient to the consumer. In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary, a debt collector shall assume that the convenient time for communicating with a consumer is after 8 o'clock am and before 9 o'clock pm, local time at the consumer's location;

(2) if the debt collector knows the consumer is represented by an attorney with respect to such debt and has knowledge of, or can readily ascertain, such attorney's name and address, unless the attorney fails to respond within a reasonable period of time to a communication from the debt collector or unless the attorney consents to direct communication with the consumer; or

(3) at the consumer's place of employment if the debt collector knows or has reason to know that the consumer's employer prohibits the consumer from receiving such communication.

The concept of the "limited C&D" is not enforceable and is not actionable if the CA(JDB) violates. It's an all or nothing statute:


(c) CEASING COMMUNICATION. If a consumer notifies a debt collector in writing that the consumer refuses to pay a debt or that the consumer wishes the debt collector to cease further communication with the consumer, the debt collector shall not communicate further with the consumer with respect to such debt, except --

(1) to advise the consumer that the debt collector's further efforts are being terminated;

(2) to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor may invoke specified remedies which are ordinarily invoked by such debt collector or creditor; or

(3) where applicable, to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor intends to invoke a specified remedy.

If such notice from the consumer is made by mail, notification shall be complete upon receipt.

(d) For the purpose of this section, the term "consumer" includes the consumer's spouse, parent (if the consumer is a minor), guardian, executor, or administrator.

actually, that is incorrect. You quoted the portion of the law that shows this:

[quote]a) COMMUNICATION WITH THE CONSUMER GENERALLY. Without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a debt collector may not communicate with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt --

(1) at any unusual time or place or a time or place known or which should be known to be inconvenient to the consumer. In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary, a debt collector shall assume that the convenient time for communicating with a consumer is after 8 o'clock am and before 9 o'clock pm, local time at the consumer's location;[/quote]

In other words, the law clearly states that the collector has the legal right to assume that between 8 am and 9 pm is an acceptable time to call IN THE ABSENCE OF KNOWLEDGE TO THE CONTRARY. So, by notifying them in writing that they are not to call you at all, you have just provided them with the knowledge to the contrary. By doing that, you have conformed to the letter of the law and as such they must do the same. right there, the law says that they can only assume thats an acceptable time to call if they havent been told otherwise--once they have been told otherwise, that right to assume is gone.

Since there is no case law to back up the assumption that all calls to a consumer are inconvenient, your argument has no weight. A "limited c&d" is a great concept but that's all it is, a concept. Until a judge rules in favor of the consumer on this, it will just have to remain a fantasy for us to argue back and forth. This topic has been hashed out over and over again on every board that I have been on. I used to think as you do until I started researching the case law that everyone was throwing out. The conclusion is, as I stated above, a topic of heated debate but has not been given the weight of law. The first few months of credit repair, I took the advice of others and added the "all my personal business is being handled via USPS, all calls to home are recorded and prohibited at work, yada yada yada". I have sent out dozens of DV's for both myself and my wife and not once did I receive adequate validation only more calls and more dunning letters. The "validation" I did receive more often than not was printed on the CA's letterhead and though technically they complied with the letter of the law, I do not find it acceptable. In all other cases they ignored it completely, sold it down the road to the next JDB, or returned it to the OC. It wasn't until I filed a BBB complaint on a well know JDB that I figured out what the deal was. The JDB's response was that I requested they cease all contact with me. Now that was not what I requested but since its an all or nothing statute, they took it as a cease comm. That makes it very difficult to force a CA to validate if they consider your "limited C&D" as a full cease comm. Now I limit it to "All calls to home are recorded and all call to my employer place my employment in jeapardy". Since I am now an informed consumer I generally know more about the law than most CA's that call me. I do not allow them to intimidate me and I ask lots of questions and generally become a pain in the a$$..... :twisted:

Quote:

if we follow your take, no judge ever will because no one would ever present the argument. Every example of precedent and case law had to start somewhere, no?

It's argued everyday in courtrooms around the country and still not incorporated into statute.

with all due respect to you, this statement makes me question your knowledge on this matter, because sending you statements on a CA's letterhead in no way meets the requirements of the law with regard to validation. The FTC even issued opinion letters to clarify this point--the intent of that statute is to 100% prevent just anyone from typing up a statement and claiming you owe them money

I'm assuming you're referring to the Wollman opinion? You might want to actually read it sometime. You might also read sec 809 of the fdcpa. It's very clearly spelled out:

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.


The law is very clear on the matter that they must obtain the info from the original creditor, not type it up themselves. And, if they had copies of original documents, why would they bother wasting the time it takes to type up that info on a new sheet of paper?

Again...what law? See sec 809 above. Nothing about anything from the OC. Just verification or name and address of the OC. Verification is likely your name and an amount on the assignment of debt.

Addressing your "interpretation" of a "limited C&D", I've pretty much spelled that out in several posts. Again....it's an all or nothing statute and you can add it all you want but there's no teeth to it. It's not enforceable and not actionable.

You can question my knowledge if you like but it is based on research and reality, not YOUR interpretation of how thing ought to be. I would suggest that you do some more research yourself. When you find case law that supports your opinion, let me know. Good Luck!

Quote:

Hey guys! You both have valuable information to share with the other members here! Your backgrounds and experiences obviously differ, but you both desire to help others overcome their debt problems. That makes both of you respected members of this forum, so wouldn't it be better if the two of you also respected each other, even though your opinions might differ at times?

thats fine, but when I personally argued it in court, I made my point and my case appears to be won...more on that soon.

And hopefully you will set a precedent with it that others can argue.


I'm referring to the law as well as the Wollman letter....and I dont need to go back and reread it again...I think you might, however:

Actually I have a copy of it tacked to my office wall.
I understand the original intent of the letter. I also understand that FTC opinion letters are not binding on a court. They may influence the judge- or they may not. Because the standard for a CA(JDB) to respond to a DV is very low. The literal words in the fdcpa is "name and address of the original creditor". That standard is only minimally modified by the Wollman FTC opinion letter. It requires the CA(JDB) to verify their infile info with the original creditor and send that info to the consumer. Unfortunately, most verification is electronic so there's just not a lot to send. When we DV a CA(JDB), we send a whole laundry list of things we want to see as proof - copies of statements, complete accounting, copies of contract documents, etc. Unfortunately, we don't have the power to require the CA(JDB) to provide any of those things with a simple DV. It's an imperfect tool and the consumer is only provided a limited arsenal by the FDCPA. There isn't a FDCPA cop that we can call for back up.

Pop quiz--what is the ONE AND ONLY PLACE where proof that you even entered into this agreement can be obtained? ORIGINAL DOCUMENTATION, thats where!


Really, the only way to compel them to provide us with those things is thru the discovery stage of litigation. Personal experience is that a DV does not often deter collection activity. If timely, it will cease collection activity until the CA(JDB) responds but with such a low standard of proof that they have to provide, they pretty much do as they please. The OP's experience, as well as my own, with Asset is proof of that.

Cases get dismissed all the time where the CA sues and doesnt have that proof "from the original creditor".

Yes. I have had 2 myself thrown out for that very reason. 1 with and 1 w/o prejudice. The one that was dismissed w/o prejudice has been re-filed and I have enough in counterclaims to offset the amount they say I owe. More on that as it happens.


youre quite clearly not aware of who I am or what my background is

You're right! I don't know you from Adam. I haven't looked at your profile so I don't know if you have your credentials hung out for everyone to see. I haven't read a lot of your posts either except those that seem to be aimed at proving me wrong.


Might I humbly suggest that you check yourself a tad or three. My knowledge, while not infallible, certainly speaks for itself, and the number of people here who have gone to court with that knowledge and won seems to increase by the week. Gee, I guess you arent dealing with someone's "interpretation" after all, son.

First of all, there is nothing HUMBLE about you from what I can see. Arrogant would be a more descriptive adjective. No one's knowledge is infallible, mine included. But, despite what my Avatar depicts, I don't have my head up my a$$. And while I have no doubt that many members here have successfully defended themselves in court, is it humble for you to take credit for it?

Anyway....I didn't join this board to engage in arguments and personal attacks on or with other members. They're counter productive and though they may be entertaining for other members, that's not why people come here. They want answers and advice on their situation. I don't mind lively debates but sometimes you have to agree to disagree. I'm willing to conceded to that. Are you skydivr7673?

What I did join this board for is that I feel that I have something of value to contribute to my fellow debtors and consumers that post here. I will leave it to the other member of the forum judge whether the advice I give is sound and rational. I admit I do not have a background in the legal profession but I deal with attorneys on a daily basis. Believe me, I didn't just wake up one day and decide that I wanted to be a consumer advocate. My experience was like a lot of others here, a surprise phone call followed a few weeks later by a knock on the door from the Sherriff with a summons for an out of statute debt. I won't go into all the gory details other than I successfully defended myself, but more than anything else, it pissed me off so much that I became obsessed with the whole thing. All my free time now and every moment that I can spare is in research and credit repair. I have managed to erase most of the derogatories from my credit reports (only 2 left). I have opened $12000 in new tradelines and boosted my FICO's from the low 500's to the high 600's in 8 month's. I'm in the process of cleaning up my wifes reports and have helped several friends and co-workers with theirs. I'm very active in other forums and only stumbled across this one when one of my employees came to me asking for help because of harrassment by a PDL bottomfeeder. I know this is completely off topic and I apologize to the OP for threadjacking. I'll just wrap this up agreeing with Guests last post:

Hey guys! You both have valuable information to share with the other members here! Your backgrounds and experiences obviously differ, but you both desire to help others overcome their debt problems. That makes both of you respected members of this forum, so wouldn't it be better if the two of you also respected each other, even though your opinions might differ at times?