Paul Kupferstein - Mr. David - EBSI- 900 Number Dialers

I AM GOING TO CONTINUE POSTING THIS UNTIL IT GETS ANSWERED.


CHARLINE and/or JANET THIS IS FOR BOTH OF YOU, SO PLEASE, EITHER ONE OF YOU or BOTH, FEEL FREE TO ANSWER:

(Again, these two questions have been side-stepped and avoided every time asked, as evidenced above)
_____________________________________________________

(1) Why is it that "Mr David" refuses to send me validation of this supposed debt I owe? Are you telling me that there only certain people at your office (e.g., Charline) that are allowed to send such validation??

(2) There are specific Canadian and US laws which regulate the collection of debt . . . why is it that your company feels that it is unnecessary and okay not to follow these rules and regulations?? The statutory procedures for debt collection is quite easy and painless...it is not really that big of a hassle . . why is it then that The Law Office of Paul Kupferstein and Associates refuses to go by book???

______________________________________________________

(And please don't answer that you cannot answer for Mr. David, and that i have to ask him myself, blah blah blah and to call you with a file/case number and you'll be more than happy to send verification)

(And I say this because if that is your answer, that is piss poor... you mean to tell me that the decision makers there allow there subordinates to play the game according to their own rules?? Meaning, if Mr David doesnt want to send validation -- as required by the law -- he doesnt have to? What kind of shady sketchy [illegitimate] business is that?)

Fantastic question, Sandy. I hope Janet is more willing to respond to the question than Charline.

Charline, you wouldn't happen to have a macro that posts your same response over and over, would you? Cuz as we have said 14 thousand times, NONE OF US EVER GOT A CASE NUMBER!



Janet - do you handle the liabilitysolutions.com website? I have a couple questions concerning it I was hoping you could answer.

Great posting Jedijeff13 - I just about fell off my chair laughing!!!!

Once again, Charline demonstrates what she does best - NOTHING!!!!!!! We are all so "awful" - boo hoo, well then do your job and we may not have to be so firm and direct!

I feel like a Kindergarden teacher trying to explain something to a student over and over again. Ok Charline, take a deep breath, try to relax and clear your mind - ANSWER THE QUESTIONS - HERE! Can you understand that? . . . . . I didn't think so.

First of all I didn't answer anymore question last night as I went home. No I do not have anything to do with a web site. Second I can't answer legal questions as I'm not a lawyer or in the legal dept. As for the BBB I have had one come to me by mail. It states that in the letter that no response is needed. That they are not proceeding. So I did not respond. But I also no from my pervious employment that if you just don't like something one way or another you can report. My ex Boss was always reporting someone for stupid things didn't like that he had to wait on hold or didn't think the persons voice was nice enough. So I don't consider BBB to very good. As I said before I will try to help if you can. I can't promise that you be happy with all the answers but I will try. And Mr. David you can keep your child like comments to your self. I can on to read what all the fuss was that I heard about. Not to take your bull. Even my children so more growin up then some of the things I've had a chance to read that you have posted. So if you'd like to call and act your age maybe I will be able to help. But you do not know me or anything about me to call me a mouthpiece or anything else.

jedijeff13 as for one of your questions unless this happened a long time ago. When they call the client they say where they are calling from then they give a case #. If they leave a message they say the case number more than once. I go into their office more than 10 times a day and listen to them. I can only help if I speak to you. I cannot fix what happened before I came here.

The question I would like answered is this one, please:

Since you are the office manager, can you verify that Mr. Kupferstein and Liability Solutions is registered and certified to collect debts in the United States and show proof?

If you can't answer it, can you direct me to the person that would be able to answer that?

Janet & Charline:

Hi. Any possibility that, since Charline stated already that she knows who I am, that one of YOU ladies could call ME to discuss the issue? I have tried calling your firm a few times, but I have not been successful in either getting validation of the debt or balance thereof, or in getting my issue resolved. I have only worked with Mr. David so far, so maybe that's the problem.

Thanks.

Elle I don't know who you are but if you phone me at 905-474-3535 ext 504. When you talk to the switchboard ask to speak to Janet if she asked you what you name is or case number just tell her its personal.

Alright. I'm going to call your office one last time. Hopefully, my experience with you will be different from what I've experienced so-far.

Thanks again.

Keep us informed Janet & Elle.

Ok, gang. I called. Janet was true to her word.

It was a very different experience from dealing with Mr. David. She was very kind and listened to what I had to say. I am going to fax her my supporting documentation by early next week, and once she receives it, she will review it and we'll take it from there. She gave me no reason to doubt her sincerity. Hopefully, I can put this issue to rest now. Thank you, Janet! :)

And thanks to the people on this Board who have been supportive and informative with regard to this issue. It's good to have a place like this to come to in times like these...where you can vent and ask questions (and get answers)!

Good luck to everyone...I will keep you posted on my progress... :)

Janet,

It's fine if you think that the BBB is not that good. I can tell you from personal experience that the BBB is a very powerful tool for the consumer in dealing with companies that do not conduct their business in accordance with the law. Below you will find info about the complaint process. A proper response to my complaint would have been validation of my supposed debt. Just to clarify for you, my supposed debt was in relation to bogus 900 calls placed by a trojan dialer.

From the BBB:

When a BBB receives a complaint, we present the complaint to the business and request its assistance in working out the problem with the unhappy customer. Most companies are grateful for the opportunity to resolve problems with their customers since it often means their patronage will be preserved.

BBB members agree to respond to consumer complaints presented by the BBB, and lose their membership if they do not. Most other companies, regardless of whether they are BBB members, also cooperate with the BBB.

However, some companies do not want to work with the Bureau and/or their customers to resolve complaints. Since the BBB is not a government or law enforcement agency, the Bureau cannot force a reply from a company; nor can it administer sanctions. However, a company's unwillingness to respond to the BBB or a customer will be noted in the company's reliability report the BBB provides to the public. The customer is free to pursue other alternatives such as legal action.

I'm sorry, did I miss your reply to jedijeff13's question?

A hardy yelp to Janet. Thank you for doing something with honor and respect. All this time, we had asked for something this simple.

Elle - please keep us informed. If this is a real, verified debt with this company, we should let people know that there is an avenue they can go through for resolution.

I will, Jeff. Thanks! :)

Elle,
I'm glad you had a good experience and do let us know how it's going...Don't forget to get everything in writing, including validation if you owe any money. Whatever you do, do not send a dime until you do.
Janet..
Certainly appreciate your posts and your help with these people. As you can see, most of us here are not trying to run from our responsibilites, but just want a fair and reasonable effort on both parties to resolve these issues.
With all the scams out there, it's not unconscionable that suspicions are raised.
I'm curious though...Do you know if your firm is licensed to collect in the US? I'm not trying to be a smartass here, but honestly, do you know? If so, is this information easily accesible.
Thanks again

I AM GOING TO CONTINUE POSTING THIS UNTIL IT GETS ANSWERED.


CHARLINE and/or JANET THIS IS FOR BOTH OF YOU, SO PLEASE, EITHER ONE OF YOU or BOTH, FEEL FREE TO ANSWER:

(Again, these two questions have been side-stepped and avoided every time asked, as evidenced above)
_____________________________________________________

(1) Why is it that "Mr David" refuses to send me validation of this supposed debt I owe? Are you telling me that there only certain people at your office (e.g., Charline) that are allowed to send such validation??

(2) There are specific Canadian and US laws which regulate the collection of debt . . . why is it that your company feels that it is unnecessary and okay not to follow these rules and regulations?? The statutory procedures for debt collection is quite easy and painless...it is not really that big of a hassle . . why is it then that The Law Office of Paul Kupferstein and Associates refuses to go by book???

______________________________________________________

Mr. David, you can continue to post until your hands fall off, you need to contact either Janet or myself and identify yourself. Once we have an opportunity to review your file we will be able to answer your question.
The law office practices debt recoveries fully within the law, for some reason you feel that this was not the case in your experience. I am not able to confirm nor deny your accusations without first reviewing your file. Perhaps validation was provided, I have no way of knowing without knowing who you are.

First of all I know nothing of the supposed 900 debt. I have never seen such debt. I answer the question that we put to me with the best of my knowledge. I am not a lawyer so I cannot answer legal question. I will try to help people resolve the issues of debt as I am trying to do with Elle and what I did for Jenna. But answering question that I have no idea about would not benefit anyone. Mr. David if you have a debt that you have been called on. Please call me and I will try to help get you the information that you seek that pertains to you and only you. I can not give information on other people. If they choose to share there info with this site that is their right. I will speak to a few people next week to seek the information that you are asking time and time again. I will be in the office for about 5 more hours than I will be back in the office on Tuesday.

Mr. David, please just give them a call and get this over with and report back to everyone either way if they do hold true to their words and provide validation.

Looking forward to Elle's response . . .

SAndy I will respond to all of the BBB in the future just to keep on top of all of this stuff. I just know what it was like listening to my ex boss complain time and time again to them knowly that he was ruining a good business name over bull. But I will answer all future letters. Jeff I hope I answered your questions. And that you for the nice comment.

If I missed your answer tto Jeff's questions, I apologize. I don't believe you have answered all of his questions. Jeff asked:

"Since you are the office manager, can you verify that Mr. Kupferstein and Liability Solutions is registered and certified to collect debts in the United States and show proof?"

"If you can't answer it, can you direct me to the person that would be able to answer that? "

Contacting an indebted consumer (by any medium) and letting them know about the debt is according to the fdcpa "debt validation"!

809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.

Nice try. Read what you pasted in your post. In my case Mr. David only gave me the (1)amount and the (2)creditor I supposedly owed money to. I guess he didn't feel it was necessary to add 3, 4, and 5 in his initial communication because it was more fun to tell me I would be sued the following week for thousands of dollars. It has been more than five days since his original communication and no written notice containing 3, 4, and 5 has ever been received. Debt not validated!

"Written" is the key word. It is the word that appears in both the US & Canadian version of the laws to protect consumers.

If I ever GOT a written validation, I may have paid some money. Then again, since my research proved the debt to fraud, I can see why I never got written proof, only threats.

Jeff,

It seems the Law Office has distanced itself from the 900# scam they were attempting to collect for. It is sad that they collected any money for the bogus calls but that is what they were paid to do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Law Office because the treatment we were subjected to was unethical at best.

Early on in this saga I contacted a lawyer and he said that if the Law Office ever did follow through and take us to court that they would have to prove we actually placed the 900# calls and they would have to provide an electronic signature proving acceptance of the terms of the 900# calls. I believe that the lack of such electronic signatures may have steered the Law Office away from attempting to collect on these bogus debts.

That may be correct. However, there are many things I have issues with in regard to this company. Granted - Janet and Charline cannot speak for them, and it's ok. The fact....FACT...is that Mr. David uses illegal tactics to try and receive a payment on a fraudulent debt. They have done it in the past, and I am not sure if they have stopped doing it. They are also not registered to be a debt collector in my state, and I am sure they are not registered in other US states either. It is a shame that they have secured money using such heavy-handed, criminal actions.

If you have proof, send it. If you don't, your threats tell the story. It's been 6 months since I have called Mr. David's bluff. 6 months. Not a peep from him. $2000 in 24 hours or I will sue you? Yeah, right. I am still waiting. They live just barely under the law. If only more people would report the actions, we can put him out of business forever.

Do they get retained for real debt? I am sure they do. But I also believe they do what they can to fill their pockets. And if they can buy up written off debt pennies on the dollar and collect outragious fees on a few, they make money.

Point is that this company does not go by the books ... laws are enacted and put into use for good reason -- not just for some bullshit reason. Indeed, I refuse to deal with a company that intentionally fails to abide by the rules/laws.

Bullshit...indeed Mr. David

Elle -- any word? What happened? Did they send you verification?

Elle I am still waiting for the information that you were going to fax to me. It's now been a week

Janet:

I apologize for the delay. I've been out of commission this past week. I was just going to call your office, but thought I'd check the Board first.

Last week, I placed a call to my former employer because I wanted them to fax me the contents of their file re: garnishment so I could forward it to you. The person who could do that for me was on vacation at the time. I have not received their papers yet. I will follow up with them and, if I have to send you their stuff under separate cover, I will.

I just got caught up with waiting for those docs and other stuff here at home, and I let the days pass. I apologize. :( At the very least, you will have my papers by tomorrow, even if I have to fax you my employer's docs separately.

Thanks for your patience...I appreciate it. :)

LarryK:

Hi, Larry! No...I never received anything in writing from Kupferstein's office. Not a letter, nor debt validation nor summons. Nothing. Just the calls from Mr. David.

I am now dealing with Janet, who has offered to help me in getting to the bottom of what I really owe. She has requested that I fax her the documents in my possession showing the balance of my account. I was supposed to fax those last week, but was waiting to get a response from my former employer. A week has passed though - and they have not faxed me what I needed. So, I will fax my docs to Janet tomorrow and send her my employer's docs whenever I get them.

I'll keep you guys posted on the progress of my file. Thanks!

What I don't understand here is why they require you, Elle, to fax them documents first?????

What will they prove? Unless you get a debt validation from them first, then you can go on to dispute this...if you dispute it, then I believe they will forward it back to the original debtor.

Janet...Can you elaborate on this a little?

You would think if a company is hired to collect a debt that they would have the exact same documents as the company hiring them - seem clear cut to me. Otherwise, how can they collect, if they don't have the information. I guess this would be why everyone they have called to try and collect from won't pay them because they try to collect some absurb WRONG amount and won't provide validation when requested to prove such.

This is how they have operated all along. Then they get mad when someone requests validation.

Would you Janet / Charline pay someone money without getting validation first?! Think about it.

I'm with zeke: what proof has been sent to Elle verifying that you have been retained by this company to collect the debt. It almost sounds like Elle is just going to send in proof of her debt which will then be turned around to look official and be sent back to her.

Janet - why are you unable to send proof that you have been retained by this company to collect a debt from Elle?

And I don't want to tell you what to do, Elle, but in my opinion, you have talked to Janet and given her enough information that she can pull your file and send you proof of your debt. If you have to fax them proof of what you owe, something smells fishy.

Yup...
This makes no sense at all. I'm a little suspicious of this and can't understand for the life of me why this simple request is extended to 40 pages on this forum! lol
Oh well...we'll press on for answers though!

I totally agree with Jedijeff13 and erzeke1.

The company collecting should be the ones sending verification. I am with Jedijeff13 - I don't think you should send them anything at all.

Perfect and dead on comment erzeke1 - the entire forum could have been lesser in pages if Paul Kuperstein, etc. just did what they are suppose to - send validation. Instead, they keep turning the tables and changing the topics - reverse pyscology may work on some but not the people here.

A lawyer I know that I consult with on these subjects just emailed me, "Payday lenders and their collectors will lie up one side and down the other to get you to shutup and payup!"
Just a thought for the day folks!

Hmmm, this is getting interesting, looks kinda like the DA is asking the defendent to show evidence that he committed the crime, instead of the DA having the proof in hand.

Well...although I see everyone's point (and you guys are right...this doesn't seem fair), part of the documents that I have to send are official ADP paystubs showing garnishment payments and a copy of the notice my firm was sent. These are things that they can't change or tamper with because (a) it would be a federal crime and (b) it would be realy stupid since these are documents that OTHER people besides myself have seen and/or prepared and can testify as to their authenticity.

In all honesty, I didn't get the impression from Janet that she's at all like Mr. David...I don't think she's out to mess with me. So I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully, we can come to some agreement.

I'll let you guys know what happens...

Guset, I believe someone had said in a posting on a previous page, "would you pay money to someone who cannot prove you owe them". Prove it and I am sure people will pay what they owe. Conduct your business professionally and by law.

Common sense Guest! Think thoroughly before you post!

My reasoning for asking for docs from elle were that she said that she had made payments. Which I have no proof of. I have the orginial debt owed. If she has proof then I will fight for her against the company that says she still owes.
Guest1
If I borrowed money and new this to be true yes I would pay my debt. These's company normally sent out three letter to the debtors if there are no responses then they send them for collections. Most debtor know that they owe a company money. You might like to pretend that you don't owe money to buy yourself some time. At least the companys that I work with do this. I have no clue in regards to 900 company which people are asking questions about. But other companys that you take a loan out from I think you know what you owe when you get the call. It would save a lot of time and bullshit if the bill was paid in the first place but in some cases as in elles things happen so I am trying to help her. So please do not insult me.

In elle's case I am trying to help her not pay more than she owes. I am no an ass or a mean person if she has paid her debt I will close her file and speak to the man that is calling her. Elle knows that she owed this debt as she signed for it. I would not be able to give her the information if she didn't. I can tell her all her info over the phone. I can sent her copies of what she already has. But that isn't what I'm trying to help with that she has already money which is not showing in my database.

You never answered the question - would you not ask for proof (validation) either way if someone asked you to send them money - ESPECIALLY when YOU are not the intial person they may have dealt with?

Despite what you may think, the question is rather valid.

Ok janet..
If she has admitted to the debt, then this conversation appears to be over.
Also, I'm hoping your statements that "most debtors know they owe a company money" and "pretend that you don't owe money" are not generalizations of all in this community.
I appreciate your help with Elle, but please refrain from vulgar language. This doesn't help your credibility on this forum.
Thanks.

Well said erzeke1!!

P.S. Awesome picture and verse!

Hi, all. Crazy day here.

Sneaking on for a sec during break. Inhaling a sandwich. Boss is in the office all day today - not happy. Janet - pls. don't be mad if you get my fax late today or tomorrow morning. Not evading. Just don't want my boss looking over my shoulder while I go through my papers and fax them from his machine. lol

'Zeke - I do admit that I owe their client something. Just not the amount he's trying to get. That's what the dispute is. :)

Gotta run. This place sucks today. :(

Then why not pay the "client" directly to avoid having to deal with them and the incorrect amount they are requesting from you.

Wouldn't that be easy and I am positive you would have no problem doing it. The company won't care how they get it as long as they get it and this firm won't make a cent off of it.

Guest..
I believe her situation is a bit more complicated. They have some of her money already so it's a bit late to dispute.

ereke1 sorry for the one bad word I guess i could have just said bull. But when people start being ignorant about me when they know nothing at all and all I'm trying to do is help. Elle sitution is different.
Elle whenever its possible for you to send the info is fine. I'm not trying to hurry you. Its just some people on here are alittle rude and I just responded to the situation.
Erzekel when I say most people I mean the people that I deal with with loans. They know they took them out so why not pay why pretend. I can't speak for you all like 900 or other companys that I know nothing about. but most people we deal with here know that they owe the money