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GC Services: Customer feedback and tips to deal with collection calls

Submitted by on Tue, 01/04/2005 - 01:27
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GC Services or GC Services Collection agency seem to be born violators of fdcpa and FCRA .We go to them to consolidate our debts and hope that they follow the book, but they seem to be least bothered about reputation. They always have people to vouch for them.Their services are the worst but I have had no problems of harassment till now. If that too were added the picture would be complete.


Mr. Bill Equis called my mother and completely harassed her. She knew she had a debt and tried to set up a payment plan at that time, but he said that was no longer an option and that she was irresponsible for paying her mortgage instead of her debt!!! He told her to come up with $10,500 in two days or he would file for foreclosure on the house! He told her she should've gotten another job- she works 60 hours a week!! He demeaned her as a human being, made idle threats, and scared her to death! She is suffering from mental anguish and we will pursue complaints against this company with the Judge Advocate of our state since my father is a 20-year military retiree.

When I called to get a formal apology written from them and sent to my mom, they said that he was the manager! and no one would tell me how to file a complaint within their company on him so I informed them that I would contact the BBB, FDCPA, the Judge Advocate of my state, and I'd even write to my congressman and senator. I can not believe that people at this business believe that they can get away with treating a 50-year old lady like this!!!


Submitted by on Tue, 04/21/2009 - 10:50

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GC Services called my elderly MOM and told her that SHE was responsible for MY American Express account (and she is NOT!). I was outraged, and filed a complaint with the Kentucky Attorney General, as well as the Federal Trade Comission. This is in COMPLETE violation of the FDCPA, and I wanted to make sure that they had to answer to someone!


Submitted by on Sun, 04/26/2009 - 12:05

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Horrible company!!! ruthless predatory lenders that will probably be sanctioned if President Obama's Predatory Lending bill passes. Gouged for 20% interest on what was called a rehabilitation program for a government backed student loan that was 180 delinquent due to unemployment.


Submitted by on Thu, 04/30/2009 - 11:08

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Obviously Jim you havent a clue about your student loan. If GCservices is calling you, you are in default, not just deliquent. You are not being chared 20% interest...you are being charged 20% collection costs by your guarantor, not GC services. You should have contacted your guarantor before defaulting for an unemployment deferment.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Thu, 04/30/2009 - 11:17

SOAPLADY

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My husband passed away last August. I took my 2 children to California to get way and visit relatives. While we there I ran a red light and received a ticket in the mail in January for the amount of $381.00. I sent payment out right way. As months passed on I received collections notice from GC services charging me an additional $300.00 for non-payment. I called my bank and check was never cashed. I put stop payment on the check and notified GC. Well, they are nothing but ignorant, rude S.O.B.'s. They didnt care about anything I said. And because check was never cashed I had no chance to prove I tried to resolve the matter. So I wrote a letter and another check for the original amount. I just received today a bill for the remaining $300.00. This has to be a scam. Im not paying it either. They can kiss it!!!


Submitted by on Mon, 05/04/2009 - 18:21

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I paid 1900 dollars during the month of April to this company and the balance did not and has not decreased. A loan that I did not make has also been put on my account. The first person I called was very rude, disrespectful and unprofessional. Someone called me after I had made 2 payments and kept changing her story each time I asked a question. Then I received 2 letters with two different messages. What can I do? I thought the purpose was to collect a debt, not take hard earned money from tax payers


Submitted by on Fri, 05/08/2009 - 21:15

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I got a call from GC Services. They refused to put anything in writing, and this was the 1st call!

They called my employer at 11:30 at night!

I complained to American Express. American Express has the account back now.

This was all in about three days-I doubt GC even has my dv letter by now.

They are evil.

A good site is collectionagencyhallofshame.blogspot.com and they have sites for most of them, so there's gcserviceswatch.blogspot.com as well.


Submitted by on Sat, 05/16/2009 - 12:45

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I am an attorney in California who is looking for class representatives for a lawsuit against American Express where their agents (particularly GC Services) have made unauthorized withdrawals from the bank accounts of their customers. Email removed


Submitted by on Tue, 05/19/2009 - 20:02

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Based Out of Houston, Texas, these guys are breaking federal and state laws. Their Corporate office number is 713-242-0932


Submitted by on Fri, 05/29/2009 - 08:42

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If you receice harassing calls. Please send the below letter to this companies corporate office by certified mail. (BTW: their corp # (713)777-4441).

GC Services Limited Partnership
ATTN: Legal Dept. Janine Celestine
6330 Gulfton
Houston, TX 77081

Today's Date

Your Name
Your Address

Collector's Name
Collector's Address

Mr./Ms. Collector,

I am writing in response to your constant phone calls!

According to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, [15 USC 1692c] Section 805(c): CEASING COMMUNICATION: You must cease all communication with me after being notified in writing that I no longer wish to communicate with you. Therefore, I demand that you stop calling me at home, at work, on my cell phone or at any other location!

In accordance with the federal FDCPA, now that you have received this "stop calling" letter, you may only contact me to inform me that you are terminating further collection efforts.

Be advised that I am well well aware of my rights. For instance, I know that any future contact by you or your company violates the FDCPA and that since you already have my location information, calls made by you or your company to any 3rd party concerning me violates section 805(b)2 of the FDCPA.

Be advised that I am keeping accurate records of all correspondence from you and your company, including tape recording all phone calls. If you continue calling me I will pursue all available legal actions to stop you from harassing me and my family.

Signature
Your Printed Name





IMPORTANT: Always send stop calling letters by "official mail - return receipt requested" and keep a copy for your records.


Submitted by on Thu, 06/11/2009 - 08:26

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i entirely agree with everybody ....these people (and i use the word very, very loosely) are the most disgusting, hypocritical, ignorant, sickening excuses for human beings i've ever had to deal with....they don't even know how to spell the word law, let alone abide by it.....they cheat, lie, and swindle people any chance they get, and have a combined iq hovering around 65 ...


Submitted by on Fri, 06/12/2009 - 14:53

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GC Services has crossed the line with me. I recently suffered an unexpected illness; they called me to harass me when I was in the CCU about making a payment! I have tried to politely tell them that I will resume payments when I am able. They tell me it is in my best interests to pay them instead of my physician. They also want me to send them money instead of purchasing the medications that are keeping me alive - they tell me "its in my best interests to do so." Now the other day my daughter intercepts a threatening phone message from them. It says "I don't want to have happen to you what is going to come your way. You better call me because I don't want to happen to you want is coming your way if you don't." Since he did not leave a name or company name, She thought it was my cardiologist or radiologist and that I was dying. Needless to say, I am taking my time about calling them back .....it will be after I talk to an attorney!


Submitted by on Mon, 06/29/2009 - 22:04

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This company is the most abusive I have ever encountered. Because they have contracts to collect money for traffic courts, they think they can treat people like shit, and this is exactly what they do.


Submitted by on Thu, 07/02/2009 - 10:39

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I worked there for one full year and let me tell you it was the worst. my manager melanie carol ws a major bitch.all she talked about ws her drunken weekends.she would befriend unerage employees and allow them to join her on these drunk escapades.the who trained me showed us pictures of bags of pot and i seen more fights there than i did in high school.it ws worse than being around 2 yr olds all day.


Submitted by on Thu, 07/02/2009 - 18:02

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I sent GC Services a letter requesting validation, their reply was to send 2 more collection notices and pass on the "account" to National Enterprise Systems. So do I now send a validation request to NES, or do I assume that it is further attempt by GC to illegally collect a debt ?


Submitted by on Fri, 07/03/2009 - 13:12

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I actually work for GC Services collecting on delinquent GMAC accounts. I never see or hear anyone violating the FDCPA laws, but I certainly hear angry debtors shouting about how we MUST be. Everyone can FEEL like their rights are being infringed upon because a collector is calling them for payments on an account they owe on, but it doesn't make it illegal. I feel for people who're going through financial strain, Lord knows I've been there. But that doesn't make the legal contract that was defaulted on any less legal.


Submitted by on Mon, 07/13/2009 - 02:58

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the fact that you threaten like you do,and i mean your company.arrest,garnishment,..etc.people don't make this stuff up.i love how the biggest bottomfeeders and ones who violate the FDCPA come on to try and justify there activties and put it on the perso they are calling.typical bottomdwelling CA or JDB.back to the phones and your so-legal collections. :roll: :roll:


Submitted by paulmergel on Mon, 07/13/2009 - 04:21

paulmergel

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Paul....GC services does do a lot of third party collections plus they are a Department of Education vendor. They are not just a bottom feeder. Some offices are held to higher standards. GMAC and DOE are two of those offices...and what the GC employee says may hold true. You cannot come down on all collectors....they are there to do a job and some actually do a good job and stick the laws.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Mon, 07/13/2009 - 04:41

SOAPLADY

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i understand that,but alot of posters have experiences that smack of bottomfeeder.i just didn't like the crack about debtors and it just gets my goat.


Submitted by paulmergel on Mon, 07/13/2009 - 06:11

paulmergel

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Dont think it was meant as a crack Paul....I spent 10 years as a student loan collector and everyone we collected from was a debtor...it is an industry term. I would call up to resolve a debt and gawd knows I was one of the nicest collectors around....and people would yell and scream and ream me out. Sorry, but there are difficult debtors who are indignant that someone asks them to pay their bill. The new house payment doesnt allow them to pay, just bought a new car, had another kid....do you know how many times I wanted to ask "ever heard of birth control" but didnt?? It does go both ways.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Mon, 07/13/2009 - 06:19

SOAPLADY

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Soaplady, hate to burst your soap bubble, but my house payment is $350 per month; I drive a 1995 car that is paid for. I didn't ask to have a heart condition, and it was not brought on by smoking, drug, or alcohol use. I have one child who is a teenager, and will not be having more. I am staying with my current house and car too. I just need a temporary break until I can get my health back. For GC to demand that I justify how will I support my self in such a demeaning manner is not called for, nor is them leaving vague and unspecific threats on my phone - threats that they cannot and will not follow up on. As I tell them, I will restart payments when I am able. Until such time, it is pointless to call and harass me. I waited until I could no longer safely wait until I went to the hospital. I left the hospital before my Dr. thought I should because I knew it was expensive. I still ended up with over $25,000 in bills for a 4 day hospital stay; bills I am responsible for because I lost my insurance when I was laid off. And should I mention that the local unemployment rate is near 20%, so I am competing with younger, healthier kids for a very limited amount of jobs. Sometimes things happen. I'm trying to deal with it; stop being so superior. Judgement belongs to God, not man.


Submitted by on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 14:25

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GC services has been harassing me off late, I owe $3500 in credit card debt to Citi Bank, my account became delinquent now, I believe Citi Bank gave it to these folks for collections, they are threatening me, calling my employer and one of my old friends whom I don't talk to anymore and telling them that I owe them money.

Can I talk to Citi Bank and ask them to make my account current??? Can someone please suggest what I can do????


Submitted by on Tue, 07/21/2009 - 16:10

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Was terminated from my job in Los Angeles on 3/6/09. Am collecting unemployment which is my only source of income. Wrote letters to AMEX trying to settle my debt but AMEX turned me over to CG Services who REFUSED to negotiate. CG wanted the money in full even though AMEX tacked on 30% interest for months and months on the money I owed them (which was for out-of-pocket medical expenses). The "counselor" at CG told my accountant she felt I was lying, that my unemployment could more than pay them off and that I had "secret" money hidden. She acknowledged that all of my charges were for medical but felt I was lying about the amount of money I could pay them. She said I should move to a cheaper apt. She also said I should take on another credit card from the BofA, transfer money to CG Services to pay off my debt and then make payment to new credit card company. When that becomes too much, default on that credit card and try negotiating with BofA as they would take .10 on the dollar. I told her that was fraud to knowingly take on another credit card just so I could default on them in a few months! She disagreed. She said BofA negotiates all the time. When I asked her why she would not settle with me she refused to give me an answer. I am now filing for bankruptcy in hopes of stopping her harassing phone calls.


Submitted by on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 15:26

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Debt collectors victimize people. That???s how they get paid and that???s how they get their joy in life. They are in the same class as rapists and child molesters. They all victimize others.

Let me suggest a strategy.

1. Don't answer any calls if you do not recognize the incoming phone number.
2. People you care about will leave a message. You can return the calls.
3. When vermin leave a message, you can delete the message.
4. Do not, at any point, enter into a conversation with a debt collector. If you speak with them, they have won. Their tactic is to engage in a conversation with you.
5. You can file a harassment complaint; but, please be realistic that it is rarely effective. If complaints were effective, they would have stopped these practices. The truth is that the money is too good, and their tactics work enough times, that you cannot stop them. Simply enjoy thwarting them by not answering their calls. It drives them insane.
6. If you have a beef with one particular low life at a debt collection agency because they have been particularly nasty, and you want to get back at them; then, you must definitely not answer their calls. You see, it works like any other business. The boss is yelling at the collector to get the money. If you don't answer his calls, the collector won't be able to report any progress. The boss continues to scream at the collector. The collector is miserable. He hates his life. You have won. Enjoy your victory.

So, let's fight back guys. Ignoring them is your personal strength.

And, of course, may they all burn in hell.


Submitted by on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 03:22

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Consumer...you sound like a typical debtor....

Debt collectors are doing a job. You borrowed money. Legally and morally you owe it. In a lot of cases, if you work with the collector, they will work with you. There are thousands of CA's in this country and not all collectors are bad. And no, their bosses dont scream at them and the collector is not miserable. He just moves onto the next account.

However, the consumer has not won. Their credit is tanked and nobody else will extend them credit. Depending on the type of debt, they could find themselves being garnished, in some cases without a court order. Having been the collector, I dealt with people like you. You would have been the walked over to our garnishment unit.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 03:29

SOAPLADY

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G.C. services is a great place to work as long as you remember to keep seeking work once you have gotten a job there.They have rediculous rules and quotas' to meet and if you don't meet them ,they walk you to the front door. Nothing you collect goes toward a quota unless it comes attached to a checking acct,you could collect 30-40,000 dollars or more in cash or paid in full and nothing goes toward your quota...you get nothing and if you do set up a payment plan with someone on their debt and they don't pay that puts you in the negative.And yes to the person that mentioned the drugs...almost everyone that works there does drugs and I really don't think they care.


Submitted by on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 11:09

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WOW....so if you get a payment via western union it doesnt count towards your goal??? I would be reporting that to employment standards....not everyone can get a checking account. Had to tell you but your division is ripping you off...I worked collections for almost a decade and I have never heard of such BS.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 12:07

SOAPLADY

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G C Services are extermely rude unproffessional and afterv they get there money they act like they dont know you anymore! be careful from them.


Submitted by on Fri, 07/31/2009 - 13:20

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???I am an attorney representing a client who has fallen victim to the deceptive practices of GC services when trying to pay his traffic citations. Would you be willing to do a declaration about your experience as you outlined in the blog as it will help our case to show that this is a pattern and practice of GC services. Please email me if you are interested???


Submitted by on Mon, 08/03/2009 - 03:25

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Call from GS Services, asked me to go locate a stranger in an apartment complex across town and tell them to call them!! Most unusual phone call I ever had!! Unbelievable really--They thought the complex might be close to where I live! So Stupid, Who would drive to another neighborhood looking for a stranger and tell them to call the collection agency???????


Submitted by on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 13:11

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Call from GS Services, asked me to go locate a stranger in an apartment complex across town and tell them to call them!! Most unusual phone call I ever had!! Unbelievable really--They thought the complex might be close to where I live! So Stupid, Who would drive to another neighborhood looking for a stranger and tell them to call the collection agency???????


Submitted by on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 13:11

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I got call after call from them... I finally decided to answer and.... the man was VERY rude to me. He cut me down and called me names saying, "can't you just borrow the $20, 000 from your family.. they must not love you" and "I guess your girlfriend doesn't love you either if she won't help you get out of debt",, then he even said, "your dog is gonna die because you probably don't even feed it" Can you believe this crap ?!?!?
I threatened to sue them and he hung up. I called back and the same guy answered and denied the whole conversation.
Eventually I just received an email from my HR director saying that they were garnishing my wages 15% FROM EVERY PAYCHECK !! I still have had no contact from them as to what my balance is or anything and had no luck contacting them.
They even took my income tax return !!!


Submitted by on Mon, 08/17/2009 - 09:07

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Sounds like a student loan.

It is not difficult to locate GC services....all you had to do was contact your guarantor...each year when they seize your income tax return, a letter is sent with contact information. You even called them once. Google is also a wonderful tool.

They do not have to update you with the balance. You need to contact them and request the information. GC service did not seize your tax return..your guarantor seized it.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Mon, 08/17/2009 - 15:09

SOAPLADY

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i recieved a call from gc services about a student loan debt that they had taken over. i was given a settlement. i was willing to pay because i have been wantin to fix myt credit anyway. they sent me a contract with the wrong variables. they were supposed to send me a new contract with the correct variables. i never got it they continued to take the money out of my account. finally they called me trying to make a new deal with me as if they had never spoken with me. they tried to give me a new settlement which would have gotten them an extra $3500. my father was willing to pay it just to get them off my back but they refused to send him a contract for proof. they then proceeded to offer me a new settlement for an extra $1000. by this point my father and i were fed up. so i stopped future payments and here i am. we will see what they do. i have my proof including the original contract, and all my bank statements if they want to spend the money i did pay them to take me court.


Submitted by on Thu, 09/03/2009 - 12:36

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Federal loan?? You have a contract...it is called your original promissory note whereby you agreed to pay your loan in full on demand. Sounds like what you should have been asking for was a settlement letter. Wrong variables?? What does this mean?

If this is a federal loan you stopped paying on, keep in mind they do not need to take you to court. They can garnish your wages without a court order and seize your income tax returns.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Thu, 09/03/2009 - 13:06

SOAPLADY

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They called me, I missed it. I called back, they didn't tell me who I was speaking to just said: "Thank you for calling, how may I help you?" which struck me as odd because if I call, say, Verizon, they would say something to the effect of "Thank you for calling Veriozon, how may I help you?" But they gave no company name. I asked why the number called and she said "Well, I can't tell you why, but we handle a lot of different kinds of business."

So I asked, okay, what do you people do? What kind of business?

She replied with: "Uh... well... uh.. may I have your phone number and then I can tell you why we called?"


Submitted by on Sat, 09/05/2009 - 07:05

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous
They called me, I missed it. I called back, they didn't tell me who I was speaking to just said: "Thank you for calling, how may I help you?" which struck me as odd because if I call, say, Verizon, they would say something to the effect of "Thank you for calling Veriozon, how may I help you?" But they gave no company name. I asked why the number called and she said "Well, I can't tell you why, but we handle a lot of different kinds of business."

So I asked, okay, what do you people do? What kind of business?

She replied with: "Uh... well... uh.. may I have your phone number and then I can tell you why we called?"


This is a totally appropriate response for a CA done by the book. They are following the rules to a T....they are not required to give their company name unless specifically asked.


Submitted by SOAPLADY on Sat, 09/05/2009 - 07:20

SOAPLADY

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I have read a lot of the comment on this site about GC Services, they all boil down to one thing you are getting calls and you do not like it. Well I have worked in the collection industry for years and I will tell you one thing if you do not what the calls make sure that
1) you are paying your minimum monthly payment before it is due.
2) you do not let your accounts go past due
3) Do not just hang up on the agents calling you (they have a leagal right to keep calling you until they talk to you)
4) be wary of any debt consolidation caompanys. the only one that is recognized by any collection agency is Consumer Credit Counsiling Services (it is a non profit orginazation)


Submitted by on Mon, 09/14/2009 - 13:08

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boy thanks for that captain obvious.now how about giving some info about companies that violate the FDCPA.like threatening arrest,garnishment,or revoking their DL.according to your post nobody should fall behind,but we know things happen.as far as consolidation or settlement companies.there are good and bad ones.we preach that one do research before hiring someone.btw GC is a notorious bottomfeeder CA.nice of you to post here.shows who your alliegance is to.


Submitted by paulmergel on Mon, 09/14/2009 - 13:35

paulmergel

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Are you kidding me? The best way to deal with these idiots is to not talk to them, not give them even a shred of information to use against you. They are not going to play fair. The more you cooperate with them, the more they will take advantage of you. Don't believe a word they say. They are liars, snakes in the grass. They prey on the innocent. They called me looking for a relative that lives in Arizona. I am stationed in NC and that relative has never been here or visited. They just saw "googled" the last name and figured that they could call and harrass me and that I would gather personal information on that person for them. They have called neighbors and asked them to go leave messages for people "HARRASSMENT". If you give them your social Security #, they will attach it to someone else's debt and try to collect the debt from you even if you don't know the person. My best advice is to not cooperate at all with these crooks and scammers. If you owe a debt then pay it to whoever you owe. Don't give anything to these people. It amazes me how they get away with their scam. I wish congress would secure our information. Anybody can find out any information on anyone on the internet. So much for privacy. Congress!!!! pass some meaningful legislation for a change and outlaw the gathering of personal information for databases. You have sold out our right to privacy so someone can make a buck. Are we going to continue to stand for this? I don't know about you but it infuriates me. So much for anti terrorism. If you feel safe it is a false sense of security. The terrorist's have their own databases which are loaded with information on us gathered off the internet. The scam artists are the least of our worries. Gunnery Sergeant G USMC


Submitted by on Tue, 09/15/2009 - 14:58

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[QUOTE=Anonymous;470521]I have read a lot of the comment on this site about GC Services, they all boil down to one thing you are getting calls and you do not like it. Well I have worked in the collection industry for years and I will tell you one thing if you do not what the calls make sure that
1) you are paying your minimum monthly payment before it is due.
2) you do not let your accounts go past due
3) Do not just hang up on the agents calling you (they have a leagal right to keep calling you until they talk to you)
4) be wary of any debt consolidation caompanys. the only one that is recognized by any collection agency is Consumer Credit Counsiling Services (it is a non profit orginazation)[/QUOTE]

Are you kidding me? You must work for them. The best way to deal with these idiots is to not talk to them, not give them even a shred of information to use against you. They are not going to play fair. The more you cooperate with them, the more they will take advantage of you. Don't believe a word they say. They are liars, snakes in the grass. They prey on the innocent. They called me looking for a relative that lives in Arizona. I am stationed in NC and that relative has never been here or visited. They just saw "googled" the last name and figured that they could call and harrass me and that I would gather personal information on that person for them. They have called neighbors and asked them to go leave messages for people "HARRASSMENT". If you give them your social Security #, they will attach it to someone else's debt and try to collect the debt from you even if you don't know the person. My best advice is to not cooperate at all with these crooks and scammers. If you owe a debt then pay it to whoever you owe. Don't give anything to these people. It amazes me how they get away with their scam. I wish congress would secure our information. Anybody can find out any information on anyone on the internet. So much for privacy. Congress!!!! pass some meaningful legislation for a change and outlaw the gathering of personal information for databases. You have sold out our right to privacy so someone can make a buck. Are we going to continue to stand for this? I don't know about you but it infuriates me. So much for anti terrorism. If you feel safe it is a false sense of security. The terrorist's have their own databases which are loaded with information on us gathered off the internet. The scam artists are the least of our worries. Gunnery Sergeant G USMC


Submitted by on Tue, 09/15/2009 - 15:04

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Get an answering machine and screen your calls. It's great because it pisses them off LOL. The best way to deal with these idiots is to not talk to them, not give them even a shred of information to use against you. They are not going to play fair. The more you cooperate with them, the more they will take advantage of you. Don't believe a word they say. They are liars, snakes in the grass. They prey on the innocent. They called me looking for a relative that lives in Arizona. I am stationed in NC and that relative has never been here or visited. They just saw "googled" the last name and figured that they could call and harrass me and that I would gather personal information on that person for them. They have called neighbors and asked them to go leave messages for people "HARRASSMENT". If you give them your social Security #, they will attach it to someone else's debt and try to collect the debt from you even if you don't know the person. My best advice is to not cooperate at all with these crooks and scammers. If you owe a debt then pay it to whoever you owe. Don't give anything to these people. It amazes me how they get away with their scam. I wish congress would secure our information. Anybody can find out any information on anyone on the internet. So much for privacy. Congress!!!! pass some meaningful legislation for a change and outlaw the gathering of personal information for databases. You have sold out our right to privacy so someone can make a buck. Are we going to continue to stand for this? I don't know about you but it infuriates me. So much for anti terrorism. If you feel safe it is a false sense of security. The terrorist's have their own databases which are loaded with information on us gathered off the internet. The scam artists are the least of our worries. Gunnery Sergeant G USMC


Submitted by on Tue, 09/15/2009 - 15:12

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